Peterdjones comments on You can't signal to rubes - Less Wrong

7 Post author: Patrick 01 January 2013 06:40AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (115)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: Patrick 01 January 2013 10:50:55AM *  1 point [-]

I do think that cost asymmetry is a defining feature of signalling. To me, signalling is a way of getting around the problem of cheap talk. To me, a "cheap signal" is like an "unenforceable pre-commitment". It defeats the point. (Of course, many people talk about pre-commitments without actually discussing the mechanics of enforcement. I view this as a grievous omission.)

I probably was too absolutist in my criteria, they should probably be read with an invisible "ceteris paribus" attached to them. I'm happy to talk of weak and strong signals.

I want to keep 4. because I make the assumption that the audience does not be deceived. Employers do not wish to hire lazy workers, and it's in every worker's interest to say that they aren't lazy.

Regarding your birthday card example, I'd classify that as a white lie. Your coworker probably doesn't care too much if he's genuinely liked or not. Same thing with Republicanism. We could also call it a "cover story".

Re: Good managerness, what you're talking about is not signalling, but Gresham's law. Decisiveness is meant as a proxy for good-managerness. Of course good manager-ness isn't observable, that's why we would tempted to invoke signalling in the first place! "How can I show that I'm a good manager? I know, I'll act decisively!".

I do agree I was being too absolutist, I do not agree that I should modify the theory. It seems to me that once we do that, we're no longer talking about signalling as it was originally conceived. I don't know how to argue for that other than to gesture at the economics literature, which talks about deceitful employees and employers without the werewithal to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Annendum: Katja Grace discusses signalling here and uses "costly signal" and "signal" as synonymous with my version of "signal". (The previous version of this comment falsely attributed it to Robin Hanson, mental note: Always check the byline)

Comment author: Peterdjones 01 January 2013 06:15:10PM 5 points [-]

To me, signalling is a way of getting around the problem of cheap talk.

To me, signalling through cheap talk is like spam: it rarely works, but the costs are low and there's a lot of it about.

Comment author: ikrase 08 February 2013 02:35:43AM 0 points [-]

Alternatively, I can think of two other variations. 1. Talk is cheap, but not free in some cases. As a subset of this, you can signal for the benefit of one audience (possibly a minority of the overall population, or your own ingroup, by saying things that will meet with moderate or minor social disapproval from the rest of the population 2. People sometimes expect costs to exist even when they don't.

Comment author: Peterdjones 08 February 2013 12:30:41PM 0 points [-]

I was thinking more of people who make boasts that 99% of the audience would consider ridiculous. If they are already low status, the cost is low and they can still get an RoI on the 1%.