CCC comments on Rationality Quotes January 2013 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: katydee 02 January 2013 05:23PM

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Comment author: MugaSofer 14 January 2013 05:27:19PM 0 points [-]

What do the real Christians that you know say about that characterisation? I don't know any well enough to know what they think

They think you should try and make sure it's really God (they give conflicting answers as to how, mostly involving your own moral judgments which seems kinda tautological) and then do as He says. Many (I think all, actually) mentioned the Binding of Isaac. Of course, they do not a believe they will actually encounter such a situation.

just from general knowledge of the doctrines I understand that the sources of knowledge of God's will are the Bible, the church, and personal revelation, all of these subject to fallible human interpretation. Different sects differ in what weight they put on these, Protestants being big on sola scriptura and Catholics placing great importance on the Church. Some would add the book of nature, God's word revealed in His creation. None of this bears any more resemblance to "direct orders from God", than evolutionary biology does to "a monkey gave birth to a human".

AFAIK, all denominations of Christianity, and for that matter other Abrahamic religions, claim that there have been direct revelations from God.

Now look at what you had to do to get that answer: reduce the matter to a tautology

As I said, simply replacing the word "God" with "rationality" yields clear nonsense, obviously, so I had to change some other stuff while attempting to preserve the spirit of your request. It seems I failed in this. Could you perform the replacement yourself, so I can answer what you meant to ask?

Comment author: CCC 14 January 2013 06:27:03PM 1 point [-]

They think you should try and make sure it's really God (they give conflicting answers as to how, mostly involving your own moral judgments which seems kinda tautological) and then do as He says.

There is a biblical description of how to tell if a given instruction is divine or not, found at the start of 1 John chapter four:

1 John 4:1 Dear friends, stop believing every spirit. Instead, test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 4:2 This is how you can recognize God’s Spirit: Every spirit who acknowledges that Jesus the Messiah has become human—and remains so—is from God. 4:3 But every spirit who does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist. You have heard that he is coming, and now he is already in the world.

One can also use the example of Jesus' temptation in the desert to see how to react if one is not sure.

Comment author: MugaSofer 14 January 2013 07:30:07PM -2 points [-]

And yet, I have never had a theist claim that "Every spirit who acknowledges that Jesus the Messiah has become human—and remains so—is from God." That any spirit that agrees with scripture, maybe.

Was Jesus unsure if the temptation in the desert was God talking?

Comment author: CCC 29 January 2013 08:28:52AM 1 point [-]

Was Jesus unsure if the temptation in the desert was God talking?

No, but the temptation was rejected specifically on the grounds that it did not agree with scripture. Therefore, the same grounds can surely be used in other, similar situations, including those where one is unsure of who is talking.

For those unaware of how the story goes:

  • Jesus goes into the desert, and fasts for 40 days. After this, He is somewhat hungry.
  • The devil turns up, and asks Him to turn some stones into bread, for food (thus, symbolically, treating the physical needs of the body as the most important thing).
  • He refuses, citing old testament scripture: "Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God."
  • The devil tries again, quoting scripture and basically telling him 'if you throw yourself from this cliff, you will be safe, for God will protect you. If you are the Son of God, why not prove it?'
  • Jesus refuses, again quoting scripture; "Do not put the Lord your God to the test"
  • For a third temptation, the devil shows him all the kingdoms of the world, and offers to give tham all to him - "if you will bow down and worship me". A direct appeal to greed.
  • Jesus again quotes scripture, "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.", and the devil leaves, unsatisfied.
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