Eugine_Nier comments on Rationality Quotes January 2013 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: katydee 02 January 2013 05:23PM

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Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 18 January 2013 08:08:05AM 1 point [-]

Taboo "make everything worse".

Have worse consequences for everybody, where "everybody" means present and future agents to which we assign moral value. For example, a sufficiently crazy deontologist might want to kill all such agents in the name of some sacred moral principle.

At the very least I find it interesting how rarely an analogous objection against VNM-utiliterians with different utility functions is raised. It's almost as if many of the "VNM-utiliterians" around here don't care what it means to "make everything worse" as long as one avoids doing it, and avoids doing it following the mathematically correct decision theory.

Rarely? Isn't this exactly what we're talking about when we talk about paperclip maximizers?

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 19 January 2013 09:16:46AM 1 point [-]

Have worse consequences for everybody, where "everybody" means present and future agents to which we assign moral value.

When I asked you to taboo "makes everything worse", I meant taboo "worse" not taboo "everything".

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 19 January 2013 09:54:28AM *  1 point [-]

You want me to say something like "worse with respect to some utility function" and you want to respond with something like "a VNM-rational agent with a different utility function has the same property." I didn't claim that I reject deontologists but accept VNM-rational agents even if they have different utility functions from me. I'm just trying to explain that my current understanding of deontology makes it seem like a bad idea to me, which is why I don't think it's accurate. Are you trying to correct my understanding of deontology or are you agreeing with it but disagreeing that it's a bad idea?

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 21 January 2013 12:28:41AM 1 point [-]

You want me to say something like "worse with respect to some utility function" and you want to respond with something like "a VNM-rational agent with a different utility function has the same property."

No, I'm going to respond by asking you "with respect to which utility function?" and "why should I care about that utility function?"