Politics Discussion Thread January 2013

OrphanWilde

Top-level comments should introduce arguments; responses should be responses to those arguments.
Upvote and downvote based on whether or not you find an argument convincing in the context in which it was raised. This means if it's a good argument against the argument it is responding to, not whether or not there's a good/obvious counterargument to it; if you have a good counterargument, raise it. If it's a convincing argument, and the counterargument is also convincing, upvote both. If both arguments are unconvincing, downvote both.
A single argument per comment would be ideal; as MixedNuts points out here, it's otherwise hard to distinguish between one good and one bad argument, which makes the upvoting/downvoting difficult to evaluate.
In general try to avoid color politics; try to discuss political issues, rather than political parties, wherever possible.

As Multiheaded added, "Personal is Political" stuff like gender relations, etc also may belong here.

Top-level comments should introduce arguments; responses should be responses to those arguments.
Upvote and downvote based on whether or not you find an argument convincing in the context in which it was raised. This means if it's a good argument against the argument it is responding to, not whether or not there's a good/obvious counterargument to it; if you have a good counterargument, raise it. If it's a convincing argument, and the counterargument is also convincing, upvote both. If both arguments are unconvincing, downvote both.
A single argument per comment would be ideal; as MixedNuts points out here, it's otherwise hard to distinguish between one good and one bad argument, which makes the upvoting/downvoting difficult to evaluate.
In general try to avoid color politics; try to discuss political issues, rather than political parties, wherever possible.

As Multiheaded added, "Personal is Political" stuff like gender relations, etc also may belong here.

I think anyone "taking an active role in society" who doesn't own land or a business has horrible consequences.

How (narrowly) would you define "taking an active role in society"? Would it apply to e.g. Martin Luther King? Eliezer Yudkowsky? Milton Friedman? George W. Bush? Donald Trump? Boris Berezovsky?

How would you rate the horribleness of the former three's impact of society, given that none of them was ever a businessman or a landowner - no, not even Friedman? How would it measure against the impact of the latter three?

And I think meritocracy is actively resisted by those who face the reality that in a society dominated by technology white/jewish/asian males currently have a huge advantage, regardless of whether that advantage is genetic/cultural/path dependent/oppression based.

Um, what exactly is this "meritocracy" of yours? Does it include any moral claims? Or is it simply a part of the idea that we need more economic "productivity" - more cheap food and cars and iPads and UAVs and office blocks and hedge funds and mass-produced entertainment and generally all the stuff that we already manufacture?
Would, say, a white guy who's genetically predisposed to innovation, extraversion and risk-taking being born into an upper-class family, founding a fashion or advertizing agency, then making a fortune helping sell overpriced goods to affluent First World young people, be a decent example of "meritocracy"? "Productivity"?

How (narrowly) would you define "taking an active role in society"?

explicit political power, implicit power should be made explicit wherever possible.

And yes, I'm specifically claiming that on net people like the latter three have a much larger negative impact than the positive impact of people like the former three.

Your use of the word overpriced and affluent leads me to believe you attach moral significance to parting idiots with their money for baubles. Why? The average wealthy person has a larger positive impact than the average non-weal... (read more)

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Politics Discussion Thread January 2013

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Politics Discussion Thread January 2013

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