Qiaochu_Yuan comments on Second-Order Logic: The Controversy - Less Wrong

24 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 04 January 2013 07:51PM

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Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 07 January 2013 01:00:37AM 1 point [-]

Time is a property of the map, not a property of the territory. The territory probably doesn't have anything that could reasonably be called time, along the lines of the timeless physics posts.

Comment author: Peterdjones 07 January 2013 01:32:05AM 0 points [-]

Barbour's universe/multiverse is much more complex than a classical timeful universe. And it isn't especialy likely, either. Specualtion =/= proof. To say the least.

Comment author: khafra 11 January 2013 02:27:04PM 3 points [-]

Could you expand on that? I had the impression that timeless physics was larger in RAM, but not on disk--where it counts for MML, Solomonoff Induction, etc.

Comment author: Peterdjones 15 January 2013 10:20:21PM 0 points [-]

I'm afraid I don't understand your RAM/disk metaphor.

Comment author: Nornagest 15 January 2013 11:22:14PM 1 point [-]

I took it to mean that it requires you to keep track of more state at any given time, but that the whole system has less logical complexity when you write it all down. Sort of like the difference between estimating the future state of a restricted N-body problem with numerical methods vs. solving it directly.

Comment author: Peterdjones 17 January 2013 01:33:58PM 0 points [-]

There are no "given times" in Barbour's universe. And who's the "you"? An internal or external observer?

Comment author: prase 07 January 2013 01:38:02AM 1 point [-]

In this approach, anything is a property of the map only.

(One thing is to say that time isn't, from the point of view of the fundamental microscopic laws, as universal and important as might intuitively appear. Another thing is to say that it doesn't exist in the territory. There are natural clocks, such as decaying radioctive elements, whose existence has little common with human "maps".)