steven0461 comments on Homogeneity vs. heterogeneity (or, What kind of sex is most moral?) - Less Wrong

-8 Post author: PhilGoetz 22 May 2009 11:25PM

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Comment author: steven0461 24 May 2009 10:05:15AM *  1 point [-]

I'm still not getting the point even after the rewrite. Aren't collective goals best served by pure collectivists with no regard for their self-interest? (Note that real humans in a communist system are not pure collectivists.) A collectivist can always just copy the individualist strategy when that is expected to best serve the collective goal.

It also looks to me like the post isn't careful enough in distinguishing fitness-maximizing vs. adaptation-executing.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 26 May 2009 09:05:34PM 0 points [-]

It also looks to me like the post isn't careful enough in distinguishing fitness-maximizing vs. adaptation-executing.

Now that I know what you mean by adaptation-executing, I can tell you that it isn't relevant. Here are the concepts I'm using:

  • Exploitation vs. exploration

  • Kin selection

These are concepts used for goal optimization and fitness maximization. Adaptation execution becomes relevant only after evolution has operated, in some particular historical context.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 24 May 2009 03:33:37PM 0 points [-]

It also looks to me like the post isn't careful enough in distinguishing fitness-maximizing vs. adaptation-executing.

I invite you to distinguish between them.

Comment author: MichaelBishop 24 May 2009 03:48:55PM 0 points [-]

When the environment changes more rapidly, or adaptations are adopted more slowly, adaptation-execution drifts further from fitness-maximization.

Comment author: AndySimpson 24 May 2009 05:16:05PM 0 points [-]

Also, organisms are always adaptation-executors rather than direct fitness-maximizers.

Comment author: timtyler 24 May 2009 07:51:30PM *  1 point [-]

What are you guys talking about, exactly? Phil describes evolution as an optimisation process - which seems fair enough to me. Are you three "adaptation-execution" folk trying to deny that evolution acts as an optimisation process? If not, what does all this have to do with Phil's original post?

Comment author: MichaelBishop 24 May 2009 10:56:49PM 0 points [-]

I'm not sure exactly what point Steven was making, I was merely responding to Phil's challenge to distinguish between fitness-maximization and adaption-execution.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 26 May 2009 06:43:13PM 0 points [-]

What do you mean by adaptation-execution?

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 26 May 2009 08:32:30PM 0 points [-]