V_V comments on [Link] How Signaling Ossifies Behavior - Less Wrong

3 Post author: Jayson_Virissimo 21 January 2013 02:06PM

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Comment author: V_V 27 January 2013 04:50:41PM 0 points [-]

That's not obvious to me at all... my rough (highly uninformed) model of how cult initiations work is that you get sucked in to a situation (e.g. Scientology "stress testing" or similar) where you're forced to either not conform or join the cult. (Also fits my (very limited) observation of fraternity initiations.)

Also keep in mind that people who join cults are not a random sample of the population. It is generally believed that people who join cults are usually in some way social outcasts to begin with. Cults offer them the possibility of being part of a close-knit community. Traditional religions also offer that, but to a lesser extent.

Just because a story is flattering to your group doesn't mean it's false. The research I've seen on the usefulness of high IQ for achieving desirable life outcomes has been pretty positive.

References?

AFAIK, it is well established that IQ positively correlates with many performance metrics for levels of IQ around and below the average, while the correlation for above average IQ is more dubious. In fact, IQ tests were originally designed to detect underperforming individuals.

The correlation between an high IQ and being a "nerd" is also debatable, while, at least in some circles, nerds may have an high IQ, it doesn't follow that many high-IQ people are nerds. Also note that the whole concept of being a "nerd" migh be largely the effect of conformity biases.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 28 January 2013 10:16:13AM 0 points [-]

References?

These weren't what I had in mind originally, but they look reasonably good:

Comment author: V_V 28 January 2013 05:31:33PM *  0 points [-]

Indeed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Income

Some researchers claim "in economic terms it appears that the IQ score measures something with decreasing marginal value. It is important to have enough of it, but having lots and lots does not buy you that much."[75][76]

Other studies show that ability and performance for jobs are linearly related, such that at all IQ levels, an increase in IQ translates into a concomitant increase in performance.[77] Charles Murray, coauthor of The Bell Curve, found that IQ has a substantial effect on income independently of family background.[78]

Low IQ precludes you various job opportunities, while the correlation between high IQ and performace is more dubious, some studies show decreasing marginal value, other studies show linear correlation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient#Real-life_accomplishments

This means that certain groups of professionally successful people have higher than average IQ, not that many higher than average IQ people become more professionally successful than average people.

Comment author: gwern 27 January 2013 06:39:23PM 0 points [-]

AFAIK, it is well established that IQ positively correlates with many performance metrics for levels of IQ around and below the average, while the correlation for above average IQ is more dubious.

I'd be interested in citations on that.