David_Allen comments on Realism : Direct or Indirect? - Less Wrong

3 Post author: kremlin 13 February 2013 09:40AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (44)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: shiftedShapes 14 February 2013 10:40:58PM 0 points [-]

What do you believe to be the case.

Comment author: David_Allen 15 February 2013 12:57:41AM *  0 points [-]

I believe that the answer depends on the perspective I adopt. This is the answer that makes sense from my current perspective.

If I model what I understand of your perspective within myself I would say that of course all my learning proceeds from some form of sensory experience, other claims are nonsensical.

With another model: The brain structures related to learning depend on more than just sensory experience, they also depend on the action of our DNA, gene networks, the limits of energy availability along with many other factors.

But why does the answer have to sensical from your perspective?

With another model: There is a process called MUP which is imparts knowledge in any form to the human mind. This is a process that by definition is any possible process not included by 'sensory experience' as defined by shiftedShapes. In other words MUP is any possible process, or perspective on a process that leads to learning beyond your claims about 'sensory experience'. Not being about to think of any examples of MUP does not disprove that MUP exists.

With another model: Blue hat.

Comment author: shiftedShapes 15 February 2013 02:16:06AM 0 points [-]

And how did you learn about brains, dna, the concept of a process or blue hat?

Comment author: David_Allen 15 February 2013 02:44:00AM 0 points [-]

This one line response seems generally repetitive to your others. It isn't obvious to me that you are making an effort to address my challenge to your claim that 'experience itself is certain to exist'. If you would like to address that please do, otherwise it seems that we are done.

Comment author: shiftedShapes 15 February 2013 02:50:44AM 0 points [-]

If you attempt to answer my questions honnestly and succinctly I think that you will soon see my point, whereas now we are talking past each other. I appreciate that you have been putting more time into your responses than I have put into mine. Please do not take this as a show of bad faith, likewise I will not adopt the uncharitable interpretation that your responses are drawn-out in an attempt to obfuscate.

Comment author: David_Allen 15 February 2013 06:02:26AM 0 points [-]

If you have a point then lay it out. Set a context, make your claims and challenge mine. Expose your beliefs and accept the risks.

I lay out my claims to you because I want you to challenge them from your perspective. I will not follow your leading questions to your chosen point of philosophical ambush.

Comment author: shiftedShapes 15 February 2013 01:24:41PM 0 points [-]

There can only be a philosophical ambush if you are more concerned about winning than ascertaining the truth. I have no interest in fighting for its own sake so I will simply wish you well.