Konkvistador comments on Think Like a Supervillain - Less Wrong

26 Post author: Qiaochu_Yuan 20 February 2013 08:34AM

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Comment author: Bugmaster 20 February 2013 08:47:56AM *  15 points [-]

There do exist at least a few superheroes who are trying to change the status quo proactively. I don't actually read that many comics, so I could be missing quite a few instances, but here are some examples:

  • Tony Stark a.k.a. Iron Man (movies): stops developing weapons and begins developing Arc Reactors instead, in order to eventually supply the world with limitless free power.
  • Tony Stark a.k.a. Iron Man (Civil War comic arc): dedicates a lot of effort to the Superhero Registration Act, in order to make superheroes accountable for their actions. Is ultimately proven wrong, I guess.
  • Professor X: wants to make the world a more tolerant place through a combination of charitable donations, public outreach, and, when absolutely unavoidable, mind control. Contrast his approach with that of Magneto, who wants to accomplish essentially the same thing through conquest.
  • Reed Richards: pretty similar to Iron Man, in that he is slowly trying to uplift the rest of humanity to his own super-technological levels. Creates the whole Negative Zone fiasco when he decides to think like a supervillain during the Civil War arc.
  • The Flash (cartoon, some comics): When he's not facing the existential threat of the week, spends his time on infrastructure improvement projects, community outreach, education, and other such activities that many other superheroes feel are beneath them.
  • Daenerys Targaryen (books): Though initially motivated solely by revenge and personal survival, she stops long enough to overturn several existing social orders in order to improve the average quality of life. An arguable example, since no one in ASoIaF is particularly heroic.

These examples are just off the top of my head; I'm sure there are others.

Comment author: [deleted] 25 February 2013 06:28:52PM *  8 points [-]

Daenerys Targaryen (books): Though initially motivated solely by revenge and personal survival, she stops long enough to overturn several existing social orders in order to improve the average quality of life.

Nearly all of which turn out terribly if I recall correctly. Her freeing of the slaves for example on a utilitarian scale is somewhere between a particularly bad natural disaster and The 30 years war, especially since it seems unlikely to last.

Besides being basically at the head of a marauding horde that is a menace to settled civilization there are further reasons to doubt she has made a positive impact so far. My girlfriend recently had an interesting fired monologue on the subject, she hates the character and sees her as behaving like the worst possible stereotype of Western (in particular American) doogooderism and interventionism. And yes I did say stereotype so I'm not saying what follows is an accurate description of real world affairs.

  1. Encounter stable working society
  2. Deem noticeable features of it immoral
  3. Not bothering to study the society use violence to enforce your morality
  4. Notice things becoming complicated and incredibly messed up, like obvious great suffering and people dying in huge numbers because of your actions
  5. Leave.
  6. Encounter stable working society...

In ASoIaF I see Tywin Lannister being nearest to a paragon of good rulership that brings about utilitarian gains. Note how the Spider actually kills his similarly tempered brother because he finds it plausible he will do as good a job as Tywin and would get the kingdom's act together enough to repulse the coming Targaryen invasion.

Comment author: Athrelon 03 March 2013 01:48:27PM 4 points [-]

I suspect the TV show may end up reducing, if not the scope, at least the emotional empact of the harmful fallout of her anti-slavery actions. Pop culture tends not to play well with values dissonance. It is known.

Comment author: Bugmaster 25 February 2013 06:31:04PM 1 point [-]

Haha yeah, that analysis is pretty much correct. Of course, we could argue whether a "stable working society" based on (f.ex.) mass slavery is moral or not; i.e., whether military action against it (and thus the resulting deaths) would be justified.

Comment author: Desrtopa 03 March 2013 02:26:38PM 1 point [-]

she hates the character

In terms of disliking her as a person, or as thinking she detracts from the story?

I more or less agree with her description, but while I dislike her in the former manner, I definitely don't dislike her in the latter.

I'd be pretty disappointed if she comes out on top in the war though.