AlexMennen comments on Rationality Quotes March 2013 - Less Wrong

9 Post author: Jayson_Virissimo 02 March 2013 10:45AM

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Comment author: AlexMennen 29 March 2013 07:45:03PM *  -1 points [-]

They don't want it badly enough, in the context of a prescriptive passage, ergo they deserve not to have it.

No, they don't want it badly enough, so they won't get it. Not that they don't deserve to get it.

As a motivational piece it doesn't work unless you view [...] stopping people who don't want something badly enough from having it as desirable traits.

Why do you believe this?

Comment author: Estarlio 29 March 2013 09:54:42PM 0 points [-]

No, they don't want it badly enough, so they won't get it. Not that they don't deserve to get it.

I find this line of reasoning unconvincing since I take the passage as a whole to be intended to make people okay with brick walls.

Why do you believe this?

1)

I heard the whole speech last year sometime and concluded it was largely prescriptive at the time.

Ah here we go:

But remember: The brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out; the brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. The brick walls are there to stop the people who don't want it badly enough. They are there to stop the other people.

http://youtu.be/ji5_MqicxSo?t=17m47s

2)

I suppose you might view it as an attempt to make people rail against the injustice of everything. However I believe that learned helplessness is a huge thing in our society and that strategy doesn't plausibly fit into how I imagine most people as being likely to behave if you tell them something's terribly unjust.

Comment author: AlexMennen 29 March 2013 11:13:11PM 2 points [-]

The brick walls are there for a reason.

Ah, I'd forgotten that part. And now that you remind me of it, I remember that I intentionally started the quote after that line because I didn't like it, for reasons similar to the ones you brought up. I now concede that he did seem to imply that keeping unmotivated people away from what they want is desirable (although I expect he would object if someone put it that way explicitly). He still mostly focused on getting around brick walls rather than leaving brick walls up, though.