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ialdabaoth comments on Don't Get Offended - Less Wrong
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And yet you're still using it. What are you attempting to accomplish? What do you think I was attempting to accomplish? (I no longer need to know the answers to these questions, because I've already downgraded this channel to barely above the noise threshold; I'm expending the energy in the hopes that you ask yourself these questions in a way that doesn't involve assuming that all our posts are soldiers fighting a battle.)
Same here with respect to the questions I asked here, here, and here. The fact that you were willing to admit to the lies gave me hope that we might have something resembling a reasonable discussion. Unfortunately it seems you'd rather dismiss my questions as 'rhetoric' than question the foundations of your beliefs. I realize the former choice is easier but if you're serious about wanting to anilyze your beliefs you need to do the latter.
For the sake of others watching, the fact that you continue to use phrases like "willing to admit to the lies" should be a telling signal that something other than truth-seeking is happening here.
Something other than truth-seeking is happening here. But the use of that phrase does not demonstrate that---your argument is highly dubious. Since the subject at the core seems to be about prioritizing between epistemic accuracy and political advocacy it can be an on topic observation of fact.
If a phrase such as "pursuing goals other than pure truth-seeking" were used rather than "noble lies", I would agree with you. But he appears to deliberately attempt to re-frame any argument that he doesn't like in the most reprehensible way possible, rather than attempting to give it any credit whatsoever. He's performing all sorts of emotional "booing" and straw-manning, rather than presenting the strongest possible interpretation of his opponent's view and then attacking that. And when someone attempts to point that out to him, he immediately turns around and attempts to accuse them of doing it, rather than him.
It's possible to have discussions about this without either side resorting to "this is how evil you're being" tactics, or without resorting to "you're resorting to 'this is how evil you're being' tactics" tactics, or without resorting to "you're resorting to 'you're resorting to {this is how evil you're being} tactics' tactics" tactics. Unfortunately, it's a classic Prisoner's Dilemma - whoever defects first tends to win, because humans are wired such that rhetoric beats honest debate.
Specifically, the method of pursuing said goals in question is by making and promoting false statements. This is precisely what the phrase 'noble lie' means. This is the kind of thing that would be bad enough even if the authority of "Science" weren't being invoked by the people making said false statements. Yes, the phrase "noble lie" has negative connotations, there are very good reasons for that.
That is approximately how I would summarize the entire conversation.
Theoretically, although those most capable of being sane when it comes to this kind of topic are also less likely to bother.
Often, yes. It would be a gross understatement to observe that I share your lament.