army1987 comments on Outside the Laboratory - Less Wrong

63 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 21 January 2007 03:46AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (336)

Sort By: Old

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: V_V 16 December 2013 05:21:12PM *  2 points [-]

Occasionally even health-conscious people eat stuff like pizza, which is arguably the equivalent of buying the occasional lottery ticket.

Bad analogy. Eating pizza (or any other high-energy food that you happen to like) is intrinsically rewarding. You don't do it all the time because you trade off this reward with other rewards (e.g. not being fat and hence ugly and unhealthy). Buying a lottery ticket is not intrinsically rewarding if you don't win, which happens with a negligible probability.
Well, buying a lottery ticket may be intrinsically rewarding if you suffer from gambling addiction, which means that you've screwed your reward system and by gambling you are doing a sort of wireheading. That's pretty much like doing drugs.
At the level of conscious preferences, you don't want to do that.

Comment author: [deleted] 16 December 2013 06:28:26PM 0 points [-]

Eating pizza (or any other high-energy food that you happen to like) is intrinsically rewarding.

For what value of ‘intrinsically’? It sure isn't rewarding for a paperclip maximizer, and IIUC you seem to be implying that doing drugs isn't intrinsically rewarding for non-addicted people.

Comment author: Lumifer 16 December 2013 06:31:16PM 2 points [-]

For what value of ‘intrinsically’?

I think for the value of "biologically hardwired into humans".

Comment author: [deleted] 16 December 2013 06:51:06PM *  0 points [-]

(I was going to say ‘then so is alcohol’ (specifically, the feeling of being tipsy), then I remembered of this claim and realized I was probably about to commit the typical mind fallacy.)

Comment author: [deleted] 16 December 2013 06:59:33PM 1 point [-]

I'm not quite sure about this; there are certainly humans who find pizza inedible for cultural reasons. I suppose you could argue that the composition of pizza is such that it would appeal to a hypothetical "unbiased" human, but that might still be problematic.

Comment author: Lumifer 16 December 2013 07:04:54PM 0 points [-]

I think the argument is really for "any ... high-energy food that you happen to like", not for culture-specific things like pizza.

Comment author: V_V 16 December 2013 06:48:53PM *  2 points [-]

It sure isn't rewarding for a paperclip maximizer

Do I have to specify that I was talking about humans?

IIUC you seem to be implying that doing drugs isn't intrinsically rewarding for non-addicted people.

Non-addicted people generally understand that addictive drugs like heroin or cocaine can give them short-term rewards but potentially hamper the satisfaction of their long-term preferences, hence they assign a negative expected utility to them.
On the other hand, eating pizza in moderate amounts is consistent with the satisfaction of long-term preferences.