ShannonFriedman comments on Co-Working Collaboration to Combat Akrasia - Less Wrong

54 Post author: ShannonFriedman 09 March 2013 06:17PM

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Comment author: Viliam_Bur 07 March 2013 01:32:48PM *  26 points [-]

Sometimes we need a person to cooperate with. Sometimes we need a person to discuss the idea with. And sometimes we only need a person who simply is there, who gives our actions the social feeling. (Insert evo-psych explanation why social feels more important to our simian brains.)

My goals at this point of time don't suffer from lack of external help, but mostly from lack of willpower. The useless stuff is pleasant. The useful stuff is great in far mode, but not enough "tempting" in near mode.

A social reinforcement could change this balance, but it would have to feel social. (I suspect the greatest temptation of web browsing is that it feels social.) Beeminder, special threads on LW, even e-mails about daily plans and accomplishments don't feel social the right way. I do feel connected while reading and writing the e-mails or comments, or while entering data to Beeminder... but not while actually doing the useful stuff.

So, because I don't live in one of the rationality beehives, I would like to try the "both on Skype / Google hangout working on separate things" coworking. Maybe with a very short chat about the work, only to add a few fuzzies and increase the social feeling.

However, if many people want to try this, perhaps we could avoid the need (and not-so-trivial inconvenience) of pair coordination by making a global virtual workspace where anyone could join and leave anytime they need, without planning in advance. I am not sure about the exact numbers, but with enough people spending enough time there we could reach a critical mass where 90+% of time someone is already there when a new person joins. Then we would have a permanent virtual workspace.

Let's try some numbers. How long do we want to work (outside of our jobs)? My estimate for myself would be 1 hour a day, on average. (I am not sure how realistic this is.) So to have there 2 people all the time, 24 hours a day, 48 people is a minimum with perfectly coordinated times. If everyone spends there 1 random hour, how many people do we need so that each hour with probability 90% (or at least 80%) at least 2 people are there? Someone better in math please help me! For the moment I will assume that the number is between 100 and 200. That is probably too much. Or isn't it? How many people did so far participate in the CFAR minicamps? Would at least half of them join this experiment for the first two weeks? Or is there someone willing to participate significantly more than 1 hour a day (e.g. someone who works from home)?

We could simply try. Agree on the technological details (so we don't accidentally start multiple conferences on the same time), and precommit -- say, during the rest of March -- to be there even if no one else is, when we are in a situation where we would enjoy the company of other rationalists. If enough people do this, sometimes you will meet another person there even without coordination. As a bonus, you can coordinate with other rationalists to meet at the global workspace; so you are guaranteed to have company, and at the same time you provide a positive externality for those who did not coordinate. And at the end of March we will have enough data to see whether this idea works or not.

The global workspace would need some global guidelines; I propose these: Do talk, but don't talk too much; give each other the contact and encouragement, but don't distract each other from work. Only participate when doing something useful, and when you finish, log out; but it does not matter what exactly you do, you don't even have to do in on the computer as long as you are somewhere near (and leave a message what are you doing). It is OK to turn off the sound if the others distract you, or if you are doing something that would distract them.

TL;DR -- Let's make one global virtual workspace for all LessWrong rationalists. Even if you coordinate with someone else, go to the global workspace. If you don't coordinate, but you wish you had some company, also go there, because you may be lucky; and if many people follow this strategy, their luck will increase. At some moment the coordination may become completely unnecessary.

Comment author: ShannonFriedman 09 March 2013 06:40:28AM *  2 points [-]

Cool idea. It would be neat to do a version of this coordinated with the Less Wrong blog, and have people use the same log in info and other integration. For example, you could get karma +/- for how you are on the workspace as well as the blog, and/or maybe you'd need to be at a minimum karma level to be in the workspace.

Comment author: ShannonFriedman 09 March 2013 04:31:47PM 2 points [-]

Also, if this gets created and takes off, we can see if FrankAdamek is up for listing it weekly along with the in person meet-up notifications.

Comment author: ShannonFriedman 09 March 2013 04:53:13PM 3 points [-]

Ooh, I was just thinking of something else fun to do. We could potentially do something like what BIL does, where people can post potential topics and times for doing hang-outs, and then if enough people sign up, that hang out gets promoted on the list of weekly events.

For example, we could have "Discussion of the Current Top Rated Post for 2 Hours at x Time" listed for people to vote on, or "Doing Dual N-Back for 20 minutes followed by discussion" as another option.

Comment author: Dorikka 09 March 2013 05:36:23PM 2 points [-]

doodle.com may work well for scheduling.

Comment author: Zian 10 March 2013 04:55:57AM 3 points [-]

For scheduling purposes, i've found WhenIsGood to be quite invaluable when coordinating between multiple time zones and people.

Comment author: Viliam_Bur 10 March 2013 01:11:40PM *  1 point [-]

Integrating with LessWrong would be great, but it would also cost money and time, and the idea is only experimental and (sorry to say this) not guaranteed to succeed. So we should make a prototype using the existing free tools. And when it succeeds... well, sky is the limit.

Comment author: ShannonFriedman 10 March 2013 07:22:53PM 1 point [-]

Makes sense and agreed. It would be nice if we could use log in info and and karma ratings as an easy way to keep out trolls without needing to do much manual moderating. That said, just trying it and seeing if trolls become a problem first seems very much worth doing. I'm encouraging people to use the chat room that Tsakinis created to get the ball rolling with initial experimenting.