buybuydandavis comments on Removing Bias From the Definition of Reductionism - Less Wrong

1 Post author: RogerS 27 March 2013 06:06PM

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Comment author: buybuydandavis 28 March 2013 07:09:23AM 0 points [-]

If I understand it correctly, reductionists on this site believe that, for the purposes of causal explanation, any “territory” in the sense of physical reality is best characterised as corresponding only to the lowest hierarchical level of our best map of it, higher levels of organisation existing only in the map. Is that right?

You see how you've basically characterized "reductionists on this site" as greedy reductionists?

Comment author: RogerS 29 March 2013 12:11:31AM *  1 point [-]

I wasn't intending to unless that's what the Wiki definition characterizes it as, because I simply tried to re-express that definition without using the terms map and territory in ways that their definitions exclude.

I think perhaps I can see the problem. My phrase "for the purposes of causal explanation" is ambiguous. I wasn't meaning "as a way of explaining any particular behaviour" but rather "as a way of establishing the root causes underlying any behaviour". Does that make it more acceptable/less "greedy"?

Another possible cause of misunderstanding is that I have never seen the point of essentialism, in other words I think the questions that matter are always "how can something be most usefully described (for some stated purpose)" rather than "what is the essence of that something", so I instinctively avoided an essentialist definition. I'll think about rewording my version in a way that essentialists will recognize, as the sort of reductionism we are talking about does seem to hinge on reality being a sort of Platonic essence...

Comment author: buybuydandavis 29 March 2013 01:24:16AM 0 points [-]

What made your characterization one of greedy reduction in my eyse was this

is best characterised as corresponding only to the lowest hierarchical level

Describe it at whatever level is most convenient. All levels are real to the extent that they model accurately.

Comment author: RogerS 08 April 2013 09:07:48PM 2 points [-]

I'm still puzzled, as you seem to be both defending and contradicting EY's view that:

the reductionist thesis is that we use multi-level models for computational reasons, but physical reality has only a single level. (Italics added).

I'm not actually attacking this view so much as regarding it as a particular convention or definition of reality rather than a "thesis".

Perhaps you are reading "best characterized as" as "best modelled as"? I'm not saying that, just that this is the sense of "reality" that EY/the wiki writer prefers to adopt.