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RomeoStevens comments on Open Thread, April 15-30, 2013 - Less Wrong
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Think carefully through egoism.
hint: Vs rtbvfg tbnyf naq orunivbef qba'g ybbx snveyl vaqvfgvathvfunoyr sebz gur tbnyf naq orunivbef bs nygehvfgf lbh'ir cebonoyl sbetbggra n grez fbzrjurer va lbhe hgvyvgl shapgvba.
Ubjrire, gur tbnyf bs rtbvfgf qb ybbx qvssrerag sebz gur tbnyf bs nygehvfgf, ng yrnfg nygehvfgf nf Enaq qrsvarq gurz.
Fur svtugf fgenj nygehvfgf jvgu n fgenj rtbvfg ervasbeprq jvgu n pbng unatre be gjb.
I don't have a link, but I remember reading somewhere that originally the altruism was defined as a self-destructive behavior -- ignoring one's own utility function and only working for the others -- and only later it was modified to mean... non-psychopatology.
In other words, it was the "egoism" which became a strawman by not being allowed to become more reasonable, while its opposite the "altruism" was allowed to become more sane than originally defined.
In a typical discussion, the hypothetical "altruist" is allowed to reflect on their actions, and try to preserve themself (even if only to be able to help more people in the future), while the hypothetical "egoist" is supposed to be completely greedy and short-sighted.
http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~campber/altruismrandcomte.pdf
Page 363 or so.
Auguste Comte coined the term "altruist", and it's been toned down considerably from his original version of it, which held, in James Feiser's terms, that "An action is morally right if the consequences of that action are more favorable than unfavorable to everyone except the agent"
It's a pretty horrific doctrine, and the word has been considerably watered down since Comte originally coined it. That's pretty much the definition that Ayn Rand assaulted.
Depends on the discussion. Reasonable egoism is practically the definition of "enlightened self-interest".
Yeah, that's the point. To get the answer "egoism", one defines egoism as enlightened self-interest, and altruism as self-destructive behavior. To get the answer "altruism", one defines altruism as enlightened pro-social behavior, and egoism as short-sighted greed. Perhaps less extremely than this, but usually from the way these words are defined you understand which one of them is the applause light for the person asking the question.
(I typically meet people for whom "altruism" is the preferred applause light, but of course there are groups which prefer "egoism".)
Juvyr ure ivyynvaf ner fbzrjung rknttrengrq va gur frafr gung crbcyr va cbjre hfhnyyl qba'g guvax va gubfr grezf (gubhtu gurve eurgbevp qbrf fbzrgvzrf fbhaq fvzvyne), va zl rkcrevrapr gurer vf n tbbq ahzore bs beqvanel crbcyr jub guvax dhvgr fvzvyneyl gb ure ivyynvaf. Enaq'f rknttrengvba vf cevznevyl gung vg vf ener gb svaq nyy bs gur artngvir genvgf bs ure ivyynvaf va crbcyr jub qb zbenyyl bowrpgvbanoyr guvatf, ohg ng yrnfg n srj bs gubfr genvgf ner gurer.
Gung'f fbzrjung orfvqrf gur cbvag, gubhtu. Znal crbcyr jubz Enaq jbhyq qrfpevor nf nygehvfgf ner abg yvxr gur ivyynvaf bs ure obbxf va gung gurl trarenyyl qba'g jnag gb sbepr bguref gb borl gurve jvyy (ng yrnfg abg rkcyvpvgyl). Vafgrnq, gurve crefbany orunivbe vf frys-unezvat (vanccebcevngr srryvatf bs thvyg, ynpx bs nffregvirarff, oryvrs gung gur qrfverf bs bguref ner zber vzcbegnag guna gurve bja, qrfver gb cyrnfr bguref gb gur cbvag gung gur ntrag vf haunccl, npgvat bhg bs qhgl va gur qrbagbybtvpny frafr, trahvar oryvrs va Qvivar Pbzznaq, rgp). Nygehvfz vf arprffnevyl onq, ohg nygehvfgf ner abg arprffnevyl crbcyr jub unez bguref - vg vf cbffvoyr naq pbzzba sbe gurve orunivbef/oryvrsf gb znvayl unez gurzfryirf.
Enaq'f ivyynvaf ner nygehvfgf, ohg abg nyy Enaqvna nygehvfgf ner ivyynvaf - znal ner ivpgvzf bs artngvir fbpvrgny abezf, pbtavgvir qvfgbegvbaf, onq cneragvat, rgp.