D_Malik comments on Post ridiculous munchkin ideas! - Less Wrong

55 Post author: D_Malik 15 May 2013 10:27PM

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Comment author: D_Malik 10 May 2013 05:27:21PM 4 points [-]

I asked the subreddit about possible practical uses of tulpas, and was told that

A tulpa should be made for companionship, not for their practical abilities. They are sentient beings, not tools to be used for your benefit.

Comment author: gwern 10 May 2013 06:07:03PM 7 points [-]

That sounds like a very practical use to me. Many people are lonely. (I remember reading one thing where wasn't there a guy making a tulpa of MLP's Twilight Sparkle?)

Comment author: bramflakes 10 May 2013 06:28:49PM 0 points [-]
Comment author: gwern 10 May 2013 06:33:31PM *  1 point [-]

No, it wasn't a video (I shun videos), but I'm reading through /r/Tulpas and apparently they acknowledge it's a really common thing for tulpa-enthusiasts ('tulpists'? is there a word for them yet?) to make ponies: http://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/comments/14zbli/the_internet_is_laughing_at_us_and_you_shouldnt/c7hy6mk So I guess it could have been any of a lot of people.

EDIT: I find the religious connection very interesting since it reminds me of the Christian practices I've read about before, so I've asked them about it: http://www.reddit.com/r/Tulpas/comments/1e33z2/comparison_with_charismatic_christian_practices/

Comment author: Prismattic 10 May 2013 05:42:37PM *  7 points [-]

Ask them if they're utilitarians.

If they say yes, suggest that according to some versions of utilitarianism they may be ethically obligated to mass produce tulpas until they run out of space in their heads.

Comment author: DanielLC 10 May 2013 07:39:22PM 7 points [-]

By the same logic, you should mass produce children until you can no longer feed them all.

Comment author: Prismattic 10 May 2013 07:43:29PM 1 point [-]

I didn't say I was a total utilitarian, though. But someone who accepts the repugnant conclusion probably should act this way.

Comment author: DanielLC 10 May 2013 08:58:25PM 5 points [-]

Raising children is expensive. There are cheaper ways to increase the population.

Comment author: Prismattic 10 May 2013 09:17:26PM 0 points [-]

Ok, but then it's no longer "the same logic." Tulpas are free!

Comment author: DanielLC 10 May 2013 11:22:18PM 9 points [-]

Tulpas are free!

created through intense prolonged visualization/practice (about an hour a day for two months).

That is not free.

Comment author: Adele_L 10 May 2013 09:17:17PM 0 points [-]

This seems like a non sequitur.

Anyway, creating tulpas is presumably much cheaper than raising an actual child, for anyone. So once the low hanging fruit in donating money to a charity that increases actual population or whatever, creating tulpas will be a much more efficient way of increasing the population, assuming they 'count' in the utility function separately and everything.

Comment author: gwern 10 May 2013 09:34:18PM 1 point [-]

Anyway, creating tulpas is presumably much cheaper than raising an actual child, for anyone.

Or even better, do sperm donation. You're out maybe a few score hours at worst, for the chance of getting scores to hundreds (yes, really) of children. Compare that to a tulpa, where the guides on Reddit are estimating something like 100 hours to build up a reasonable tulpa, or raising a kid yourself (thousands of hours?).

Comment author: Adele_L 10 May 2013 10:02:01PM 1 point [-]

But someone still has to raise the kid at some point, and besides, not everyone can make sperm.

Comment author: gwern 11 May 2013 12:57:04AM 3 points [-]

I'm not sure that sperm banks have an oversupply; apparently England has something of a shortage due to its questionable decision to ban anonymous donation, which is why our David Gerard reports back that it was very easy to do even though he's old enough he wouldn't even be considered in the USA as far as I can tell.

Comment author: shminux 10 May 2013 10:26:37PM 3 points [-]

It's possible to donate eggs, though it's not nearly as much fun.

Comment author: Adele_L 10 May 2013 10:41:02PM 1 point [-]

Not everyone is fertile. I can't make either, currently.

But my point is that someone still has to take the cost of raising the child. So a utilitarian might try to convince more people to make tulpas instead of making more babies.

Comment author: DanielLC 10 May 2013 11:24:56PM *  2 points [-]

But someone still has to raise the kid at some point

They wouldn't otherwise be working to increase the population, so the cost is negligible.

and besides, not everyone can make sperm.

But someone can. Pay them to do it.

Comment author: DanielLC 10 May 2013 11:25:56PM 0 points [-]

Anyway, creating tulpas is presumably much cheaper than raising an actual child, for anyone.

I just said there are cheaper ways to increase the population. You have to compare it to them. How does it compare to sperm donation? Saving lives?

Comment author: juliawise 11 May 2013 02:03:19PM 4 points [-]

I don't think additional sperm donors will increase the population - I don't think lack of donors is the bottleneck.

Saving lives probably doesn't either, if the demographic transition model is true. At least, saving child lives probably results in lower birthrates - perhaps saving adults doesn't affect birthrate.

Comment author: jkaufman 22 June 2013 06:27:46AM 1 point [-]

I don't think lack of donors is the bottleneck.

Depends on the country.

Comment author: DanielLC 11 May 2013 04:33:42PM 0 points [-]

I'm told there are areas where it's illegal to get paid to "donate" sperm. I think it's a bottleneck there.

Comment author: Friendly-HI 25 May 2013 12:05:38AM *  1 point [-]

Islam, Catholocism and others approve, though they're vague about what happens once you run out of space or can no longer feed them. Sharp tongues may claim that has already happened.