Vulture comments on Post ridiculous munchkin ideas! - Less Wrong

55 Post author: D_Malik 15 May 2013 10:27PM

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Comment author: Kindly 16 May 2013 03:47:01AM 4 points [-]

Some thoughts about how to munchkin tulpas:

  1. If domain experts say that the obvious ways to exploit having a tulpa fail, they are probably right. That means I'm skeptical about things such as "tulpa will remind you to do your homework ahead of time and do mental math for you".

  2. The most promising idea is to exploit your interpersonal instincts: trick your brain into thinking someone is there. This has benefits for social extraverts, for people who are more productive when working in groups, or for people susceptible to peer pressure (maybe you'd be uncomfortable picking your nose in front of your imaginary friend).

  3. But if this works, presumably there is a corresponding downside for people who enjoy being left alone to think.

  4. Probably the scariest objection I've seen here is that a tulpa might make you dumber due to diverting concentration. But I'm not sure this is obviously true, in the same way that always carrying a set of weights will not make you weaker. I'm not sure this is obviously false either, and I don't see a good way to find out.

Comment author: Vulture 08 November 2013 03:48:49AM *  3 points [-]

According to an anonymous poster on 4chan:

Pretty much everyone that has them has reported that they do a lot of interesting things that are just plain impossible for a puppet, from memory access (can retrieve a lot of lost memories, or even remember entire books in perfect detail) to reported dream experiences to them joining you in your dreams and have their own experiences.

I proposed a simple experiment to test if the tulpa is its own being: have the tulpa work in parallel with you own some problem, for example, some advanced math. You would be focusing all your attention on something specific thus having no time to work on the problem, while the tulpa does just that. If the tulpa succeeds, you can conclude that it's its own independent mental process separate from your own.

One person who was asked to performed this experiment reported some success that's just not feasible for normal humans. Failure was reported for those that parroted (regular imaginary friend).

I plan on trying this stuff for myself and experimenting, then I will know for sure.

Even if the poster is straight-up lying, this is a clever munchkin use for tulpas and interesting idea for an experiment (although I admit I know practically nothing about the typical performance patterns with that kind of problem-solving).

also, a couple of other points:

  • Psychologist T. M. Luhrmann has suggested that tulpas are essentially the same phenomenon as evangelical Christians 'speaking to God'. I can't find any evidence that evangelicals have a higher rate of mental illness than the general population, so I consider that a good sign on the mental health-risks front.

  • If you are worried about mental health risks (EDIT: Or the ethics of simulating a consciousness!), then you should probably treat guides to tulpa creation ('forcing') as an information hazard. The techniques are purely psychological and fairly easy to implement; after reading such a guide, I had to struggle to prevent myself from immediately putting it into action.

ETA:

Some prior art on the parallel problem-solving idea. I'd say it fairly well puts to rest that munchkin application. In terms of implications for the mechanics of tulpas, I'd be curious how teams of two physical people would do on those games.

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