buybuydandavis comments on Three more ways identity can be a curse - Less Wrong

40 Post author: gothgirl420666 28 April 2013 02:53AM

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Comment author: Eugine_Nier 28 April 2013 06:59:32PM 1 point [-]

mood disorders are more common in certain professions, ones where it would be erroneous to call unproductive. Suicidal ideation correates with divergent thinking and creative achievement in a sample of undergrads.

Yes, people with divergent ideas are more likely to be exiled.

There is a new theory that depression in some may be due to mild brain damage, possibly caused by high fat diets, pollution, and lack of exercise. Evidence for this by its high percentage in industrialized society compared to egalitarian [sic] cultures,

There are also many cultural and structural differences between industrial and pre-industrial societies, e.g., as Paul Graham mentioned in this essay:

Teenage kids used to have a more active role in society. In pre-industrial times, they were all apprentices of one sort or another, whether in shops or on farms or even on warships. They weren't left to create their own societies. They were junior members of adult societies.

Teenagers seem to have respected adults more then, because the adults were the visible experts in the skills they were trying to learn. Now most kids have little idea what their parents do in their distant offices, and see no connection (indeed, there is precious little) between schoolwork and the work they'll do as adults.

And if teenagers respected adults more, adults also had more use for teenagers. After a couple years' training, an apprentice could be a real help. Even the newest apprentice could be made to carry messages or sweep the workshop.

Comment author: buybuydandavis 29 April 2013 03:34:40AM 11 points [-]

That goes with a general problem in society - age cohort segregation. It always strikes me as odd that people think schools provide socialization. Putting a bunch of kids in age segregated isolation is a recipe for Lord of the Flies, not socialization in terms of civilization. Civilization is passed on by those who are civilized, not created out of thin air by those who are not.

Comment author: Viliam_Bur 29 April 2013 06:24:54AM 6 points [-]

Spending most of the time in age-segregated environment is harmful.

Maybe even harmful for learning, because it actively prevents the voluntary "younger people learning from their older role models". It gives teachers almost a monopoly on passing information to the next generation, which is suboptimal, because teachers usually don't do professionally what they teach. (For example a teacher of a computer science does not have the experience of an IT professional. So the next generation of IT professionals starts only with the teacher's knowledge, and must learn many important things after school on their own. E.g. many people working in IT use a lot of free software: Firefox, Libre Office, etc. but most of the high schools in my country still teach only Word and Excel. And I avoid starting a flamewar on a choice of a programming language; but the teacher's favorite is usually the one they learned at university, maybe 20 years ago. Forget about version control, agile development, or anything necessary for productivity but non-essential for textbook examples.)

The worst impact is probably on children with higher- or lower-than-average intelligence. The children with higher intelligence are actively prevented from applying their natural solution: seeking company of older students. The children with lower intelligence must keep up with the speed that is too difficult for them, or go to a "special" school and bear the stigma; they don't have much of a choice to slow down.

Comment author: buybuydandavis 01 May 2013 07:03:16AM *  5 points [-]

School is basically hell for everyone as far as learning goes. One size teaching that needs to fit 30 at a time. I'm so jealous of kids these days with Khan academy and the internet generally. I used to read my encyclopedia for fun, until the love of learning was largely squashed out of me for a few years until I transferred to a private high school with standards that required some effort on my part.

But I don't think that's the biggest problem with age cohorts. The effects on socialization are worse, IMO. Breeds a bunch of cocky little twerps who think they know everything, but know nothing. No respect for their elders who actually know a few things they don't, and little experience leading and taking care of the young. All experience is boiled down to status games with your rough peers, with little input or guidance from the civilized. There is no real achievement, because it's a fantasy land where others are providing the resources to live. Similar to prison.

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