Decius comments on Three more ways identity can be a curse - Less Wrong

40 Post author: gothgirl420666 28 April 2013 02:53AM

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Comment author: Eugine_Nier 01 May 2013 01:17:45AM 1 point [-]

First, why is this distinction relevant to the comment you made in the ancestor?

Depression (a chemical state of the brain) is not laziness, nor lack of motivation, nor akrasia, nor lack of motivation. If you are referring to something other than a chemical state, try using 'melancholy'.

Second, the brain is a complicated system. Naively playing with the inner workings of a complicated system tends to result in all kinds of unintended consequences. In other words, just because we have some idea what chemical state corresponds to depression, doesn't mean using chemicals is the best way to treat it.

Comment author: Decius 01 May 2013 03:40:34AM -1 points [-]

It does mean that you shouldn't conflate atypical serotonin levels with temporary loneliness after one's cat died by calling both of those 'depression'.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 01 May 2013 04:28:27AM 1 point [-]

Do you have research that the temporary loneliness after one's cat died does not in fact involve atypical serotonin levels?

Also why is this relevant. Your statement implied that the similarity cluster that includes laziness, lack of motivation, and akrasia does not include depression. Even if laziness say turns out to involve a different hormone, or some other chemical and/or physical process, I fail to see why that's an argument against including depression in the same similarity cluster.

Comment author: Decius 01 May 2013 06:04:53AM 0 points [-]

Oh, that argument is based entirely on the lack of similarity of those characteristics and their effects.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 01 May 2013 11:49:32PM 1 point [-]

Which characteristics? I'm having trouble figuring out what the antecedents of your pronouns are supposed to be.

Comment author: Decius 02 May 2013 04:47:29AM 0 points [-]

I phrased that poorly.

Depression, laziness, lack of motivation, and akrasia do not share many of their defining features. For the purpose of dealing with one or more of them, they are more different than they are similar.

To speak of them as similar, you need a context distant from them. If you are discussing personnel management in general , for example, they could be grouped together with disloyalty and family problems as potential characteristics of people that need to be taken into consideration. Once you get into the consideration that needs to be taken for a specific individual, treating depression the same as laziness provides bad outcomes.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 02 May 2013 10:51:51PM 2 points [-]

Depression, laziness, lack of motivation, and akrasia do not share many of their defining features. For the purpose of dealing with one or more of them, they are more different than they are similar.

They certainly have similar symptoms, i.e., difficulty getting oneself to do what one (or at least one's higher brain functions) want to do. If your claim is that they have different underlying causes, I'd like to see what evidence convinced you of this.

Comment author: Decius 03 May 2013 04:33:11AM 0 points [-]

Taboo laziness and lack of motivation.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 04 May 2013 02:59:52AM 1 point [-]

For purpose of this discussion, let's say the similarity cluster that correspond to how those phrases are commonly used.

Comment author: Decius 04 May 2013 05:28:43AM 1 point [-]

So, character traits that result in someone choosing not to do something that someone else does, or having a suboptimal outcome?

Or did you refer to a common usage that isn't common between us?