DanArmak comments on Privileging the Question - Less Wrong

102 Post author: Qiaochu_Yuan 29 April 2013 06:30PM

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Comment author: DanArmak 28 April 2013 07:01:33PM 5 points [-]

If I can solve planetary motion, I will be famous and professionally respected. I will feel great about myself, rich noblemen will want to become my patrons, and I will be appointed to prestigious and lucrative posts like President of the Royal Society or Master of the Mint. I will be forever remembered as one of the greatest scientists in all of history!

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 28 April 2013 07:06:09PM *  3 points [-]

That might count as "signaling".

Comment author: DanArmak 28 April 2013 07:20:38PM 2 points [-]

What exactly counts as "signalling"? I started to write down a definition, but I think it's better you give yours.

Comment author: Patrick 29 April 2013 07:52:10AM *  1 point [-]

The colloquial definition is "Useless but impressive and flatters my vanity".

The probabilistic definition is "Observable thing X signals quality A means P(A|X) > P(A)".

The economic definition is "Alice signals P to Bob by X if the net cost of X to Alice is outweighed by the benefits of Bob 'believing' A, and X causes Bob to 'believe' A even when Bob takes in to account that Alice wants him to 'believe' A." (note 'believe' A means 'act as if A were true'.)

Comment author: DanArmak 29 April 2013 02:54:43PM 0 points [-]

The colloquial definition is "Useless but impressive and flatters my vanity".

Useless to whom?

Newton was respected for coming up with useful theories and natural science, not just pure philosophy or non-applied math. You could maybe argue that his work was rarely useful to him personally, so he only did it as "signalling" to get respect from others to whom it was useful. But under that theory, any division of labor where people are paid money for their work which is only useful to others would be called "signalling".

The probabilistic definition is "Observable thing X signals quality A means P(A|X) > P(A)".

That's true: that Newton came up with good theories in the past is evidence he'll come up with more good theories in the future. It signals his quality as a scientist.

But this is a good thing (as opposed to the usual negative implied connotations of "mere signalling"). And the reason it's a good thing is that his scientific work was actually useful, so it's a good thing others could identify this and reward him to make him do more useful work.

The economic definition is [...]

That's just saying "people will choose to signal if benefits exceed costs". It's true, but it doesn't explain to me the original statement:

With the worst privileged questions I frequently find that the answer is "nothing," sometimes with the follow-up answer "signaling?"

Which says "signalling' in this instance is something that motivates people in the absence of things being useful in their own right.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 29 April 2013 12:24:36AM 6 points [-]

Using my theory of planetary motion, I will be able to STOP THE EARTH FROM CRASHING INTO THE SUN.

Comment author: shminux 29 April 2013 01:25:40AM 4 points [-]

But you killed the gnomes and the fairies!

Comment author: DanArmak 29 April 2013 02:55:14PM 4 points [-]

Because they did not obey my scientific theories, they went on to CRASH INTO THE SUN!

Comment author: dspeyer 29 April 2013 03:08:49AM 2 points [-]

Even without a coherent theory of planetary motion, we can assign a very low probabiliy to the earth crashing into the sun simply on the basis that it hasn't yet.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 29 April 2013 01:20:33PM 7 points [-]

...that is exactly the sort of judgment which requires some sort of theory. Every day, trillions of things happen which have never happened before. Never in the history of the universe has this comment been posted to LW!

Comment author: Desrtopa 29 April 2013 01:26:30PM *  3 points [-]

Well, a couple days ago, we could reasonably have assigned a pretty low probability to that exact post being made today.

New things happen all the time, but without a model, we can't assign much likelihood to any specific new thing happening at any particular time.

Comment author: Kawoomba 29 April 2013 02:10:13PM 3 points [-]

Without some kind of model, you can't assign any probabilities period (.)

Comment author: MugaSofer 29 April 2013 08:02:50AM -1 points [-]

With the worst privileged questions I frequently find that the answer is "nothing," sometimes with the follow-up answer "signaling?" That's a bad sign.