Viliam_Bur comments on [SEQ RERUN] Bayesians vs. Barbarians - Less Wrong

2 Post author: MinibearRex 03 May 2013 05:39AM

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Comment author: Viliam_Bur 05 May 2013 10:14:00AM 1 point [-]

Taboo "altruism" and "egoism". Those words in their original meaning are merely strawmen. Everyone cares about other people (except for psychopaths, but psychopaths are also bad at optimizing for their own long-term utility). Everyone cares about their own utility (even Mother Theresa was happy to get a lot of prestige for herself, and to promote her favorite religion). In real life, speaking about altruists and egoists is probably just speaking about signalling... who spends a lot of time announcing that they care about other people (regardless of what they really do for them), and who neglects this part of signalling (regardless of what they really do). Or sometimes it is merely about whom we like and whom we don't.

Comment author: lyghtcrye 05 May 2013 11:56:09PM 0 points [-]

I had no intention of implying extreme altruism or egoism. I should be clear that by altruism I mean the case in which an agent believes that the values of of some other entity or group have a smaller discount rate than those of the agent itself, while egoism is the opposite scenario. I describe myself as an egoist, but this does not mean that I am completely indifferent to others. In the real world, one would not describe a person who engages in altruist signalling as an altruist, but rather that person would choose the label of altruist as a form of signalling.

Either way, returning to the topic at hand with the taboo in effect, those who value the continuation of their society as a greater value than personal survival will be willing to accept greater risks to their own life to improve the chances of victory at war. Likewise those who consider their own survival more highly, even if they expect that loss in war may endanger their life, will choose actions that are less risky to themselves even if it is a less advantageous action for the group. By attempting to modify the values of other to place greater weight on society over the individual, and by providing evidence which makes pro-social actions seems more appealing ,such as by making them appear less risky to the self, one can improve the probability of victory and improve the chance of personal survival. Of course if everyone were engaging in this behavior, and we assume equal skills and resources amongst all parties, there would either be no net effect on the utility values of agents within the group, or a general trend toward greater pro-social behavior would form, depending on what level of skill and susceptibility we assume. This is a positive outcome as the very act of researching and distributing the information required would create greater net resources in terms of knowledge and strategy for effectively contributing to the war effort.