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Polymeron comments on The flawed Turing test: language, understanding, and partial p-zombies - Less Wrong
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Certainly the Turing test can be viewed as an operationalization of "does this machine think?". No argument there. I also agree with you concerning what Turing probably had in mind.
The problem is that if we have in mind (perhaps not even explicitly) some different definition of thinking or, gods forbid, some other property entirely, like "consciousness", then the Turing test immediately stops being of much use.
Here is a related thing. John Searle, in his essay "Minds, Brains, and Programs" (where he presents the famous "Chinese room" thought experiment), claims that even if you a) place the execution of the "Chinese room" program into a robot body, which is then able to converse with you in Chinese, or b) simulate the entire brain of a native Chinese speaker neuron-by-neuron, and optionally put that into a robot body, you will still not have a system that possesses true understanding of Chinese.
Now, taken to its logical extreme, this is surely an absurd position to take in practice. We can imagine a scenario where Searle meets a man on the street, strikes up a conversation (perhaps in Chinese), and spends some time discoursing with the articulate stranger on various topics from analytic philosophy to dietary preferences, getting to know the man and being impressed with his depth of knowledge and originality of thought, until at some point, the stranger reaches up and presses a hidden button behind his ear, causing the top of his skull to pop open and reveal that he is in fact a robot with an electronic brain! Dun dun dun! He then hands Searle a booklet detailing his design specs and also containing the entirety of his brain's source code (in very fine print), at which point Searle declares that the stranger's half of the entire conversation up to that point has been nothing but the meaningless blatherings of a mindless machine, devoid entirely of any true understanding.
It seems fairly obvious to me that such entities would, like humans, be beneficiaries of what Turing called "the polite convention" that people do, in fact, think (which is what lets us not be troubled by the problem of other minds in day-to-day life). But if someone like John Searle were to insist that we nonetheless have no direct evidence for the proposition that the robots in question do "think", I don't see that we would have a good answer for him. (Searle's insistence that we shouldn't question whether humans can think is, of course, hypocritical, but that is not relevant here.) Social conventions to treat something as being true do not constitute a demonstration that said thing is actually true.
It is perhaps worth noting that Searle explicitly posits in that essay that the system is functioning as a Giant Lookup Table.
If faced with an actual GLUT Chinese Room... well, honestly, I'm more inclined to believe that I'm being spoofed than trust the evidence of my senses.
But leaving that aside, if faced with something I somehow am convinced is a GLUT Chinese Room, I have to rethink my whole notion of how complicated conversation actually is, and yeah, I would probably conclude that the entire conversation up to that point has been devoid entirely of any true understanding. (I would also have to rethink my grounds for believing that humans have true understanding.)
I don't expect that to happen, though.
Wouldn't such a GLUT by necessity require someone possessing immensely fine understanding of Chinese and English both, though? You could then say that the person+GLUT system as a whole understands Chinese, as it combines both the person's symbol-manipulation capabilities and the actual understanding represented by the GLUT.
You might still not possess understanding of Chinese, but that does not mean a meaningful conversation has not taken place.
I have no idea whether a GLUT-based Chinese Room would require someone possessing immensely fine understanding of Chinese and English both. As far as I can tell, a GLUT-based Chinese Room is impossible, and asking what is or isn't required to bring about an impossible situation seems a silly question. Conversely, if it turns out that a GLUT-based Chinese Room is not impossible, I don't trust my intuitions about what is or isn't required to construct one.
I have no problem with saying a Chinese-speaking-person+GLUT system as a whole understands Chinese, in much the same sense that I have no problem saying that a Chinese-speaking-person+tuna-fish-sandwich system as a whole understands Chinese. I'm not sure how interesting that is.
I'm perfectly content to posit an artificial system capable of understanding Chinese and having a meaningful conversation. I'm unable to conceive specifically of a GLUT that can do so.
I don't think it's that hard to conceive of. Imagine that the Simulation Argument is true; then, we could easily imagine a GLUT that exists outside of our own simulation, using additional resources; then our Chinese Room could just be an interface for such a GLUT.
As you said though, I don't find the proposal very interesting, especially since I'm not a big fan of the Simulation Argument anyway.
I find I am unable, on brief consideration, to conceive of a GLUT sitting in some real world within which my observable universe is being computed... I have no sense of what such a thing might be like, or what its existence implies about the real world and how it differs from my observed simulation, or really much of anything interesting.
It's possible that I might be able to if I thought about it for noticeably longer than I'm inclined to.
If you can do so easily, good for you.
Not necessarily. Theoretically, one could have very specific knowledge of Chinese, possibly acquired from very limited but deep experience. Imagine one person who has spoken Chinese only at the harbor, and has complete and total mastery of the maritime vocabulary of Chinese but would lack all but the simplest verbs relevant to the conversations happening just a mile further inland. Conceivably, a series of experts in a very localized domain could separately contribute their understanding, perhaps governed by a person who understands (in English) every conceivable key to the GLUT, but does not understand the values which must be placed in it.
Then, imagine someone whose entire knowledge of Chinese is the translation of the phrase: "Does my reply make sense in the context of this conversation?" This person takes an arbitrary amount of time, randomly combining phonemes and carrying out every conceivable conversation with an unlimited supply of Chinese speakers. (This is substantially more realistic if there are many people working in a field with fewer potential combinations than language). Through perhaps the least efficient trial and error possible, they learn to carry on a conversation by rote, keeping only those conversational threads which, through pure chance, make sense throughout the entire dialogue.
In neither of these human experts do we find a real understanding of Chinese. It could be said that the understandings of the domain experts combine to form one great understanding, but the inefficient trial-and-error GLUT manufacturers certainly do not have any understanding, merely memory.
I agree on the basic point, but then my deeper point was that somewhere down the line you'll find the intelligence(s) that created a high-fidelity converter for an arbitrary amount of information from one format to another. Sarle is free to claim that the system does not understand Chinese, but its very function could only have been imparted by parties who collectively speak Chinese very well, making the room at very least a medium of communication utilizing this understanding.
And this is before we mention the entirely plausible claim that the room-person system as a whole understands Chinese, even though neither of its two parts does. Any system you'll take apart to sufficient degrees will stop displaying the properties of the whole, so having us peer inside an electronic brain asking "but where does the intelligence/understanding reside?" misses the point entirely.
This does not pass the simplest plausibility test. Do you imagine that being at a harbor causes people to have only conversations which are uniquely applicable to harbor activities? Does one not need words and phrases for concepts like "person", "weather", "hello", "food", "where", "friend", "tomorrow", "city", "want", etc., not to mention rules of Chinese grammar and syntax? Such a "harbor-only" Chinese speaker may lack certain specific vocabulary, but he certainly will not lack a general understanding of Chinese.
Your other example is even sillier, especially given that the number of possible conversations in a human language is infinite. For one thing, a conversation where one person is constantly asking "Does my reply make sense?" is very, very different from the "same" conversation without such constant verbal monitoring. (Not to mention the specific fact that your imaginary expert would not be able to understand his interlocutor's response to his question about whether his utterances made sense.)
You make some valid points.
A more realistic version would be for for an observer to record all conversations between two Chinese speakers with length N, where N is some arbitrarily large but still finite conversation length. (If a GLUT were to capture every possible conversation, you are correct in saying that it would have to be infinite).
From a sufficiently large sample size (though it is implausible to capture every probable conversation in any realistic amount of time, not to mention in any amount of time during which the language is relatively stable and unchanging), a tree of conversations could be built, with an arbitrarily large probability of including a given conversation within it.
From this, one could built a GLUT (though it would probably be more efficient as a tree) of the possible questions given context and the appropriate responses. Though it would be utterly unfeasible to build, that is a limitation of the availability of data, rather than the GLUT structure itself. It would not be perfect - one cannot build an infinite GLUT, nor can one acquire the infinite amount of data with which to fill it - but it could, perhaps, surpass even a native speaker by some measures.
I remain dubious.
Consider: what would the table contain as appropriate responses for the following questions? (Each question would certainly appear many, many times in our record of all conversations up to length N.)
Remember that a GLUT, by definition, matches each input to one output. If you have to algorithmically consider context, whether environmental (what year is it? where are we?), personal (who am I?), or conversation history (what's been said up to this point?), then that is not a GLUT, it is a program. You can of course convert any program that deterministically gives output for given input into a GLUT, but to do that successfully, you really do need all possible inputs and their outputs; and "input" here means "question, plus conversation history, plus complete description of world-state" (complete because we don't know what context we'll need in order to give an appropriate response).
In other words, to construct such a GLUT, you would have to be well-nigh omniscient. But, admittedly, you would not then have to "know" any Chinese.