benelliott comments on Terminology suggestion: Say "degrees utility" instead of "utils" to prompt affine thinking - Less Wrong

11 Post author: Sniffnoy 19 May 2013 08:03AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (43)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: benelliott 19 May 2013 02:34:38PM 8 points [-]

You can double the real numbers representing them, but the results of this won't be preserved under affine transformations. So you can have two people whose utility functions are the same, tell them both "double your utility assigned to X" and get different results.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 May 2013 01:27:38AM *  2 points [-]

I think it would be very useful to explicitly state what the consequences of utility functions being only defined up to an "affine transformation" are in the grandparent post instead of assuming that everyone knows this at a 5-second level. My immediate reaction to the parent post was to look at the wikipedia article for affine transformations without much enlightenment.

Temperature is pretty useless as an analogy, because everyone knows that 2*40 degrees = 80 degrees; you have to think about moving between Celsius and Fahrenheit to actually get something useful out of the analogy. Voltage is even less helpful, because all it depends on is having a fixed reference point (i.e., differences between two voltages are always preserved, even if you change zero points), while distances aren't preserved in general under affine transformations.

The downvoted post and your response are the most valuable in this entire thread, as they were the only ones that clearly communicated what the actual ramifications of utility functions only being defined up to an affine transformation were.

Ugh. Sorry if this came across as snarky, but the grandparent post came across as "If this young man expresses himself in terms too deep for me,/Why, what a very singularly deep young man/this deep young man must be!"

Comment author: Sniffnoy 20 May 2013 07:44:39PM *  2 points [-]

2*40 degrees = 80 degrees

Except 2*40 degrees isn't 80 degrees; the operation "2*40 degrees" is simply meaningless in the first place. (I mean, unless that's a temperature difference of 40 degrees.)

(I mean, OK, you can strictly speaking double a temperature, but in order to do so you need to know what absolute zero is.)