shminux comments on To reduce astronomical waste: take your time, then go very fast - Less Wrong

46 Post author: Stuart_Armstrong 13 July 2013 04:41PM

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Comment author: shminux 11 July 2013 08:01:05PM 1 point [-]

I used relativistic beaming, where nearly all of the particles come from straight ahead, multiplied by the beaming factor. Alternatively, the calculation can be done fully Newtonian in the comoving frame, with the spaceship's mass multiplied by gamma (about 10 when v=.99c).

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 11 July 2013 09:08:49PM 1 point [-]

So you multiplied the gas pressure by the beaming factor? But the gas pressure at rest is proportional to the temperature of the gas, and the forward-facing pressure of a relativistic ship couldn't possibly care less about the temperature of the gas.

Comment author: shminux 12 July 2013 02:25:22AM *  2 points [-]

Well to be more precise, I took the comoving stress energy tensor of photon gas, rho*diag(1,1/3,1/3,1/3) in the natural units, and Lorentz transformed it. Same for dust, only its comoving stress energy tensor is rho*diag(1,0,0,0).

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 12 July 2013 01:45:15PM 3 points [-]

Okay, so you weren't basing the braking pressure of the gas off of the atmospheric pressure of the gas, but simply off of its density?

I guess I shouldn't be too shocked that super-high vacuum is approximately frictionless.

Comment author: bogdanb 12 July 2013 01:02:12AM 0 points [-]

Gas pressure at rest is also proportional to the number of molecules. (PV=nRT) Which at constant volume and known composition basically means mass, i.e. how much gas you’re hitting, which does matter.

That said, I still don’t get the exact calculation, so I’m not sure that it’s correct reasoning.

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 12 July 2013 05:10:31PM 2 points [-]

My argument is typical physicist fare - note that the answer has a spurious dependence, therefore it's wrong. That it also has one of the right dependences wouldn't matter.

I was off on what the implied steps in the derivation were, so it didn't have the problem I described.

Comment author: shminux 12 July 2013 05:59:57PM 1 point [-]

At the interstellar temperatures (2.7K or so) the ideal gas pressure has negligible contribution to the kinetic friction at near-light speeds. The situation is somewhat different for photon gas, where pressure is always large, of the order of density * speed of light^2, not density * RT. But in the end it does not matter, since the CMB density is much much less than the dust density even in the intergalactic space.

Comment author: bogdanb 13 July 2013 07:40:38PM 0 points [-]

OK, I got it, I think. I was confused both about the question and the answer :-)