Mestroyer comments on Why do theists, undergrads, and Less Wrongers favor one-boxing on Newcomb? - Less Wrong

15 Post author: CarlShulman 19 June 2013 01:55AM

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Comment author: Mestroyer 19 June 2013 03:24:32AM 14 points [-]

Addendum:

About atheists vs theists and undergrads vs philosophers, I think two-boxing is a position that preys on your self-image as a rationalist. It feels like you are getting punished for being rational, like you are losing not because of your choice, but because of who you are (I would say your choice is embedded in who you are, so there is no difference). One-boxing feels like magical thinking. Atheists and philosophers have stronger self-images as rationalists. Most haven't grokked this:

How can you improve your conception of rationality? Not by saying to yourself, “It is my duty to be rational.” By this you only enshrine your mistaken conception. Perhaps your conception of rationality is that it is rational to believe the words of the Great Teacher, and the Great Teacher says, “The sky is green,” and you look up at the sky and see blue. If you think: “It may look like the sky is blue, but rationality is to believe the words of the Great Teacher,” you lose a chance to discover your mistake.

Comment author: CarlShulman 19 June 2013 09:22:11PM *  8 points [-]

Will's link has an Asimov quote that supports the "self-image vs right answer" idea, at least for Asimov:

I would, without hesitation, take both boxes . . . I am myself a determinist, but it is perfectly clear to me that any human being worthy of being considered a human being (including most certainly myself) would prefer free will, if such a thing could exist. . . Now, then, suppose you take both boxes and it turns out (as it almost certainly will) that God has foreseen this and placed nothing in the second box. You will then, at least, have expressed your willingness to gamble on his nonomniscience and on your own free will and will have willingly given up a million dollars for the sake of that willingness-itself a snap of the finger in the face of the Almighty and a vote, however futile, for free will. . . And, of course, if God has muffed and left a million dollars in the box, then not only will you have gained that million, but far more imponant you will have demonstrated God's nonomniscience.9

Comment author: RomeoStevens 20 June 2013 01:15:52AM 11 points [-]

And only coincidentally signalling that his status is worth more than a million dollars.

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 20 June 2013 07:22:51PM 6 points [-]

But losing the million dollars also shoves in your face your ultimate predictability.

Voluntarily taking a loss in order to insult yourself doesn't seem rational to me.

Plus, that's not a form of free will I even care about. I like that my insides obey laws. I'm not fond of the massive privacy violation, but that'd be there or not regardless of my choice.

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 20 June 2013 09:18:24AM 13 points [-]

Seems like Asimov isn't taking the stakes seriously enough. Maybe we should replace "a million dollars" with "your daughter here gets to live."