Ritalin comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 19, chapter 88-89 - Less Wrong

12 Post author: Vaniver 30 June 2013 01:22AM

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Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 30 June 2013 02:00:16AM 10 points [-]

I can't tell whether you mean "this was clichéd and bad writing" or "this made me sad" or maybe even "letting a female character die to motivate a male character is sexist."

Comment author: Ritalin 30 June 2013 02:20:20AM 5 points [-]

All of the above, and more. He didn't just stuff her into the fridge after an entire story of not-measuring-up, and a chapter of bonding and future plans. He killed her off-screen, and then gave us false hope of saving her. And he has the gall to imply that this is Harry's fault for trying to be sensible, for expecting too much of normal people, and for not thinking to use his Patronus.

It felt contrived, cruel, and uncaring. "Let's get her out of the way and give Harry a motivation" is the feeling one gets.

It was fucking bridge-dropping, is what it was.

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 30 June 2013 02:27:32AM 12 points [-]

And he has the gall to imply that this is Harry's fault for trying to be sensible

Harry thinks this. In general it's not a good idea to assume that authors agree with everything their characters think, and Eliezer has explicitly pointed this out on several occasions.

cruel

I think this was deliberate. Have you read the piece Eliezer wrote about his brother?

Comment author: Ritalin 30 June 2013 02:38:43AM -1 points [-]

Okay, the narrative implies this. I frankly don't care what the author himself thinks.

And yes, I have. In the context where I read it, it was an uplifting piece about accepting that we live in a difficult world and making the best of it, and about the very obvious fact that death is bad. You bringing this up in this context makes me angry for some reason I don't quite understand.

Comment author: Mestroyer 30 June 2013 02:51:31AM 14 points [-]

It is bridge dropping, and I love it. We are being given a taste of a dark rationalist, who does not give his enemies dramatic deaths where they get to die like heroes, perhaps accomplishing something through it. When a dark rationalist takes control of the story (or rather, starts to use the control over the story he's always had), the story becomes contrived, cruel and uncaring, as it should. It's realism.

Comment author: gwern 30 June 2013 03:16:08AM 11 points [-]

We are being given a taste of a dark rationalist, who does not give his enemies dramatic deaths where they get to die like heroes, perhaps accomplishing something through it.

See also Fate/zero & Kuritsugu. And note that it's not just Hermione's death that is fast and cruel, it's the troll's too: Harry steps forward with the stone, stuffs it in, releases it to explode the head, and acidifies the brains in less time than it takes to type that.

Actually, there's a great rationality quote for here:

Getting caught up in style and throwing away victory is something for the lower ranks to do. Captains can't even think about doing such a carefree thing. Don't try to be a good guy. It doesn't matter who owes who. From the instant they enter into a war, both sides are evil.

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