Alsadius comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 19, chapter 88-89 - Less Wrong

12 Post author: Vaniver 30 June 2013 01:22AM

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Comment author: Alsadius 30 June 2013 08:27:54PM *  0 points [-]

The people in Azkaban are guilty of crimes, usually pretty terrible ones. There's a difference between the innocent and the guilty.

Edit: For clarity, I'm not saying that they deserve to be tortured to death for their crimes. Azkaban is unnecessary and wildly disproportionate. It's an issue of priorities - I'm going to feel bad for the victims of murder and work to help them quite a lot earlier than I'll do the same for the perpetrators of murder.

Comment author: RolfAndreassen 01 July 2013 02:31:11AM 7 points [-]

From canon, and from what nearly happened to Hermione, it is clear that one can be sent to Azkaban while innocent.

Comment author: Alsadius 01 July 2013 04:44:11AM 2 points [-]

Of course. However, it's not the usual outcome.

Even given that, Azkaban is certainly worse than Hermione's death, speaking intellectually. But it doesn't hit as hard emotionally.

Comment author: ygert 01 July 2013 02:20:50PM 3 points [-]

If there are thousands of inmates at Azkaban, and the wizarding justice system is not always absolutely correct, even if then are only wrong a percent or two of the time, there are tens or even maybe hundreds of innocent prisoners of Azkaban. So, "not the usual outcome", is irrelevant, what matters is the numbers. But of course it doesn't hit as hard, and that is precisely because of the numbers. It is a bug in the human brain that one innocent person being ripped to death in front of you hurts a lot more than tens of innocent people being tortured to death out of sight, especially surrounded by thousands more people also being tortured to death who some say have lower moral priority.

Comment author: Alsadius 02 July 2013 02:32:49AM *  0 points [-]

I don't think it's the numbers so much as it is the familiarity. Were I familiar with any one Azkaban inmate, assuming the wizarding justice system is at least decently effective, I'd probably say "Yeah, this guy is probably guilty. Sucks to be him, but he should really avoid killing people next time". That is not what I think when I see Hermione suffering. Even knowing that there's probably several Hermiones in there, not knowing which ones they are makes empathizing with them a lot harder.

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 02 July 2013 02:41:34AM 1 point [-]

assuming the wizarding justice system is at least decently effective

Based on how Hermione's trial went, this probably isn't a safe assumption. Many of the people in Azkaban may have just pissed off the wrong person (e.g. Lucius).

Comment author: Alsadius 02 July 2013 02:47:01AM 1 point [-]

I doubt most trials are decided by political pressure. There's a few, but the typical trial is done in an ordinary way, with no bias more malicious than a prosecutor wanting to avoid looking stupid and the judge wanting to get done in time for lunch.