V_V comments on Why Eat Less Meat? - Less Wrong

48 Post author: peter_hurford 23 July 2013 09:30PM

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Comment author: V_V 11 January 2014 03:24:05PM 0 points [-]

At least for search engines, I would say there exist a meaningful level of description where it can be said that the search engine chooses which results to display in response to a query, approximately maximizing some kind of scoring function.

Comment author: Lumifer 11 January 2014 03:34:54PM 1 point [-]

there exist a meaningful level of description where it can be said that the search engine chooses which results to display in response to a query

I don't think it is meaningful in the current context. The search engine is not an autonomous agent and doesn't choose anything any more than, say, the following bit of pseudocode: if (rnd() > 0.5) { print "Ha!" } else { print "Ooops!" }

Comment author: Ishaan 11 January 2014 08:10:32PM *  0 points [-]

"If you search for "potatoes" the engine could choose to return results for "tomatoes" instead...but will choose to return results for potatoes because it (roughly speaking) wants to maximize the usefulness of the search results."

"If I give you a dollar you could choose to tear it to shreds, but you instead will choose to put it in your wallet because (roughly speaking) you want to xyz..."

When you flip the light switch "on" it could choose to not allow current through the system, but it will flow current through the system because it wants current to flow through the system when it is in the "on" position.

Except for degree of complexity, what's the difference? "Choice" can be applied to anything modeled as an Agent.

Comment author: Lumifer 11 January 2014 09:44:35PM 1 point [-]

When you flip the light switch "on" it could choose to not allow current through the system, but it will flow current through the system because it wants current to flow through the system when it is in the "on" position.

Sorry, I read this as nonsense. What does it mean for a light switch to "want"?

Comment author: Ishaan 11 January 2014 09:57:44PM *  1 point [-]

To determine the "preferences" of objects which you are modeling as agents, see what occurs, and construct a preference function that explains those occurrences.

Example: This amoeba appears to be engaging in a diverse array of activities which I do not understand at all, but they all end up resulting in the maintenance of its physical body. I will therefore model it as "preferring not to die", and use that model to make predictions about how the amoeba will respond to various situations.

Comment author: V_V 14 January 2014 05:51:34PM 0 points [-]

I think the light switch example is far fetched, but the search engine isn't. The point is whether there exist a meaningful level of description where framing the system behavior in terms of making choices to satisfy certain preferences is informative.

Comment author: Lumifer 14 January 2014 07:59:38PM 1 point [-]

Don't forget that the original context was morality.

You don't think it is far-fetched to speak of morality of search engines?

Comment author: V_V 15 January 2014 12:04:59AM 0 points [-]

Yes, it is.