wedrifid comments on Religion's Claim to be Non-Disprovable - Less Wrong

124 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 04 August 2007 03:21AM

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Comment author: RomanDavis 27 August 2012 05:03:15AM *  0 points [-]

It's not the only possible one, but I'm going to act as if it doesn't exist because I have no evidence it exists and because there's no reason to expect that to change.

Ask yourself, "What's your anticipated experience?"

If you don't have one, how can you even say you have a belief?

Comment author: wedrifid 27 August 2012 05:27:38AM *  3 points [-]

Ask yourself, "What's your anticipated experience?"

If you don't have one, how can you even say you have a belief?

I have a past experience that leads me to predict essentially no direct experiences yet that I have nonetheless have not forgotten. For example, if I remember sending the relativistic rocket outside my future light-cone or towards a black hole. I still believe it probably exists.

Comment author: RomanDavis 27 August 2012 05:42:25AM 0 points [-]

Well, your memory counts as an experience. As does the hawking radiation that you expect to find emitting out of a black hole.

Just as your subjective experience of consciousness counts as evidence of you being conscious. Just as the similarities between your behavior and the behavior of others is exactly what you'd expect if they were as conscious as you are.

Comment author: DanielLC 27 August 2012 05:51:45AM 0 points [-]

Well, your memory counts as an experience.

Your memory only shows that the ship left. It doesn't tell you that the ship continued existing once it crossed the event horizon.

Comment author: RomanDavis 27 August 2012 06:02:04AM *  0 points [-]

It probably didn't exist as a rocket, at least for very long near a black hole, but you need magic to turn matter into nothing, and there's no evidence of magic.

Comment author: wedrifid 27 August 2012 06:56:38AM -1 points [-]

It probably didn't exist as a rocket, at least for very long near a black hole

It was a particularly large black hole.

Comment author: shminux 27 August 2012 07:04:50AM 0 points [-]

As far is we know, there is nothing inside a black hole, yet it is not magic.

Comment author: RomanDavis 27 August 2012 07:07:09AM *  0 points [-]

Not much space. Lots of mass.

Comment author: shminux 27 August 2012 07:14:37AM 0 points [-]

There is no standard way to define blackhole's volume, so your first statement is meaningless. ("Not much time" would make a bit more sense.) Black hole's mass can vary, so "Lots of mass" depends on what you mean by lots.

Comment author: RomanDavis 27 August 2012 07:24:26AM *  0 points [-]

My understanding was that blackholes were areas of extremely dense matter that created gravity so strong light couldn't escape their event horizons (without exotic stuff like Hawking radiation). I meant it to be a truism.

I'm not pretending my physics knowledge is super deep, but I'm pretty sure that blackhole have mass, and that if an object goes into a blackhole, their mass becomes part of it, the same as if I put the object into a sun. The mass is not magicked away.

Comment author: shminux 27 August 2012 07:30:14AM *  0 points [-]

blackholes were areas of extremely dense matter that created gravity so strong light couldn't escape their event horizons

The "extremely dense matter" part is wrong, black holes are vacuum, even though they are formed from collapsing matter. In this sense, matter "is turned into nothing".

an object goes into a blackhole, their mass becomes part of it

That much is true, but mass is just a number (properly measured infinitely far from the black hole, to boot), not something you can touch or see.