Eugine_Nier comments on Does Checkers have simpler rules than Go? - Less Wrong

14 Post author: jkaufman 13 August 2013 02:09AM

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Comment author: itaibn0 13 August 2013 05:00:22PM 8 points [-]

Not based on objective measures, but I believe the simplest abstract strategy game played seriously by people is Hex.

Comment author: jkaufman 13 August 2013 08:15:55PM 10 points [-]

I've added Hex and it comes in at 377 bytes gzipped (without the swap rule), supporting your impression that it's simpler.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 15 August 2013 01:53:26AM 0 points [-]

(without the swap rule)

I'd like to point out that without the swap rule it's also very easy to write a program that plays perfectly.

Comment author: evec 15 August 2013 10:21:50PM 4 points [-]

I don't believe your comment is true in any meaningful sense. Can you explain what you mean?

Details: It's easy to prove that the first player wins in Hex without the swap rule, but it's even easier to prove the second wins in any (deterministic, ...) game with the swap rule. Neither proof is constructive, and so neither provides an efficient program.

Interpreting your statement differently, it's easy to write a program that plays any (deterministic, ...) game optimally. Just explore the full game tree! The program won't terminate for a while, however, and this interpretation makes no distinction between the versions with and without the swap rule.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 16 August 2013 05:25:27AM 1 point [-]

Oops. I was apparently confusing hex with bridge-it.

Comment author: jkaufman 15 August 2013 07:01:19PM 2 points [-]

How well does this map to the human experience of the game? Do two experienced players need the swap rule for the game to remain interesting?

Comment author: SimonF 20 August 2013 04:04:52PM *  2 points [-]

It depends on the skill difference and the size of the board, on smaller boards the advantage is probably pretty large: Discussion on LittleGolem