Kaj_Sotala comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 26, chapter 97 - Less Wrong

5 Post author: palladias 15 August 2013 02:18AM

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Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 15 August 2013 03:48:51PM 13 points [-]

"I only used you in ways that made you stronger. That's what it means to be used by a friend."

My favorite line in this chapter.

Comment author: Kindly 15 August 2013 04:05:33PM 16 points [-]

Which calls back to this bit in Chapter 51:

But then Professor Quirrell had also seen Harry taught Occlumency, he had taught Harry how to lose... if the Defense Professor wanted to make some use of Harry Potter, it was a use that required a strengthened Harry Potter, not a weakened one. That was what it meant to be used by a friend, that they would want the use to make you stronger instead of weaker.

Comment author: moritz 30 August 2013 02:13:44PM 4 points [-]

Did you notice that from Quirrel's perspective, that's exactly what he has done to/with Harry? Killing Hermione had the effect of hardening Harry's resolve, and removing some of his scrupels. For Quirrel that's "stronger".

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 03 September 2013 01:06:44AM 3 points [-]

And not just obvious current scruples. Hermione is an external scruple-generator for Harry.

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 15 August 2013 09:00:52PM 4 points [-]

Why?

Comment author: OnTheOtherHandle 15 August 2013 10:53:32PM 21 points [-]

I don't know about the parent, but personally I liked this line because it debunks the cached thought that "using" someone is always wrong. Humans use one another all the time for all sorts of things, from a grad student using his mentor to advance his career to an overworked executive using her goofy laid-back friends to keep her blood pressure down. People tend to only consider one very narrow and destructive meaning of the word "use", and then come to the conclusion that you can't have a genuine caring relationship with someone if you pursue it for personal benefit. The grad student can still admire and love his mentor even though the main point of that relationship is so he can get a PhD. If you do care about the person, you'd try to arrange it so that your use will help them too.

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 16 August 2013 03:03:42AM 9 points [-]

That's one reading, I guess. Another reading is that this is the kind of line you might use to justify the narrow and destructive kind of using to yourself. Seems a little dangerous is all.

Comment author: OnTheOtherHandle 16 August 2013 04:34:12AM 2 points [-]

That's true, and in this context it doesn't seem like Harry was being entirely fair. I liked that line better the first time around, when Harry applied it to how Quirrell used him. He was wrong, but I thought it was interesting that he chose to view it in that light.

Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 16 August 2013 07:54:52AM 7 points [-]

Because of what OtherHandle said, basically. Yes, it can be a dangerous and self-serving attitude that you use merely to rationalize your abuse of another person, but I also find there to be something refreshingly honest about it, at least if you're open about it (which Harry admittedly wasn't).

Reading that line caused me and a friend to have a very pleasant conversation of the ways in which we are going to use each other for our mutual benefit in the future. :)