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army1987 comments on Humans are utility monsters - Less Wrong
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This can be resolved by taking a timeless view of the population, so that someone still counts as part of the average even after they die. This neatly resolves the question you asked Eliezer earlier in the thread, "If you prefer no monster to a happy monster why don't you kill the monster." The answer is that once the monster is created it always exists in a timeless sense. The only way for there to be "no monster" is for it to never exist in the first place.
That still leaves the most repugnant conclusion of naive average utilitarianism, namely that it states that, if the average utility is ultranegative (i.e., everyone is tortured 24/7), creating someone with slightly less negative utility (ie they are tortured 23/7) is better than creating nobody.
In my view average utilitarianism is a failed attempt to capture a basic intuition, namely that a small population of high utility people is sometimes better than a large one of low utility people, even if the large population's total utility is higher. "Take the average utility of the population" sounds like an easy and mathematically rigorous to express that intuition at first, but runs into problems once you figure out "munchkin" ways to manipulate the average, like adding moderately miserable people to a super-miserable world..
In my view we should keep the basic intuition (especially the timeless interpreation of it), but figure out a way to express it that isn't as horrible as AU.
In that view, does someone already counts as part of the average even before they are born?
I would think so. Of course, that's not to say we know that they count... my confidence that someone who doesn't exist once existed is likely much higher, all else being equal, than my confidence that someone who doesn't exist is going to exist.
This should in no way be understood as endorsing the more general formulation.
Yes and no. Yes in that the timeless view is timeless in both directions. No in that for decisionmaking we can only take into account predictions of the future and not the future itself.
For intuitive purposes, consider the current political issues of climate change and economic bubbles. It might be the case that we who are now alive could have better quality of life if we used up the natural resources and if we had the government propogate a massive economic bubble that wouldn't burst until after we died. If we don't value the welfare of possible future generations, we should do those things. If we do value the welfare of possible future generations, we should not do those things.
For technical purposes, suppose we have an AIXI-bot with a utility function that values human welfare. Examination of the AIXI definition makes it clear that the utility function is evaluated over the (predicted) total future. (Entertaining speculation: If the utility function was additive, such an optimizer might kill off those of us using more than our share of resources to ensure we stay within Earth's carrying capacity, making it able to support a billion years of humanity; or it might enslave us to build space colonies capable of supporting unimaginable throngs of future happier humans.)
For philosophical purposes, there's an important sense in which my brainstates change so much over the years that I can meaningfully, if not literally, say "I'm not the same person I was a decade ago", and expect that the same will be true a decade from now. So if I want to value my future self, there's a sense in which I necessarily must value the welfare of some only-partly-known set of possible future persons.
Presumably, only if they get born. Although that's tweakable.