wallywalrus comments on To what degree do you model people as agents? - Less Wrong
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
Comments (130)
In the past year or two, I've spent a lot of time explicitly trying to taboo "agenty" modelling of people from my thoughts. I didn't have a word for it before, and I'm still not sure agenty is the right word, but it's the right idea. One interesting consequence is that I very rarely get angry any more. It just doesn't make sense to be angry when you think of everyone (including yourself) mechanically. Frustration still happens, but it lacks the sense of blame that comes with anger, and it's much easier to control. In fact, I often find others' anger confusing now.
At this point, my efforts to taboo agenty thinking have been successful enough that I misinterpreted the first two paragraphs of this post. I thought it was about the distinction between people I model as full game-theoretic agents (I account for them accounting for my actions) versus people who will execute a fixed script without any reflective reasoning. To me, that's the difference between PCs and NPCs.
More recently, following this same trajectory, I've experimented with tabooing moral value assignments from my thoughts. Whenever I catch myself thinking of what one "should" do, I taboo "should" and replace it with something else. Originally, this amorality-via-taboo was just an experiment, but I was so pleased with it that I kept it around. It really helps you notice what you actually want, and things like "ugh" reactions become more obvious. I highly recommend it, at least as an experiment for a week or two.
My problem with this is that I want people to be agenty. For me the distinction between agent and complex system is about self-awareness and mindfullness. If you think about yourself and what you are and aren't capable of and how you interact with the world, you will have more agency and be a better person. I'm disgusted by people who just live like thoughtless animals.
I guess the obvious solution is to get over it. But I'm not sure I want to. It holds people to a higher standard.
I think you're confusing being proactive and being a good person.
If a homicidal maniac acquires more agency that doesn't make him a better person, it just makes him more dangerous.
I think what OP meant was the following. Having two people with the same, positive aims (e.g. be a good parent, do your job well), the agency-driven one will achieve more with the same hard work as the another. Therefore, for people around you, you would wish them to be more agenty as a default.
That's generally described by words like "effective" and "high-productivity".
Why are you assuming that people around me have positive aims? Moreover, what's important is not just aims, but also the costs (and who pays them)