What should a college student do to maximize future earnings for effective altruism?

D_Malik

21 What should a college student do to maximize future earnings for effective altruism?

27th Aug 2013

3 min read

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I'd like to solicit advice since I'm starting at Stanford this Fall and I'm interested in optimal philanthropy.

First off, what should I major in? I have experience in programming and math, so I'm thinking of majoring in CS, possibly with a second major or a minor in applied math. But switching costs are still extremely low at the moment, so I should consider other fields.

Some majors that could have higher lifetime earnings than straight CS:

Petroleum engineering. Would non-oil energy sources cause pay to drop over the next 40 years?
Actuarial math. If I understand correctly, actuaries had high pay because they were basically a cartel, artificially limiting the supply of certifications to a certain number each year. And I've heard that people that used to hire actuaries now hire cheaper equivalents, so pay could be less over the next 40 years.
Chemical engineering, nuclear engineering, electrical and electronics engineering, mechanical engineering, aerospace engineering.
Pre-med.
Quantitative finance.

Thoughts?

Stanford actually has salary data for 2011-2012 graduates by major. CS has highest earnings, by quite far. The data is incomplete because few people responded and some groups were omitted for privacy, so we don't know what e.g. petroleum engineers or double majors earned.

Should I double-major? There are some earnings statistics here; to summarize, two majors in the same field doesn't help; a science major plus a humanities major has lower earnings than the science major alone; greatest returns are achieved by pairing a math/science major with an engineering major, which increases earnings "up to 30%" above the math/science major alone. I'd guess these effects are largely not causation, but correlation caused by conscientiousness/ambition causing both double majors and higher earnings.

I could also get minors. I'm planning to very carefully look over the requirements for each major and minor, since there do seem to be some cheap gains. A math minor can be done in one quarter, for instance; a math major takes only a bit more than two quarters.

I have a table with the unit requirements of each combination of majors and minors. Most students take 15 units a quarter. Here are some major/minor combinations I could do:

If I take 18.8 units a quarter, I could double-major in CS and econ.
If I take 15.8 units a quarter, I could major in CS and minor in math and econ.
If I take 15.4 units a quarter, I could double-major in CS and math.

Cal Newport argues that this sort of thing a bad idea because hard schedules do not actually impress employers more.

Would employers care about double majors in undergrad if I also get a graduate degree? I will do a master's degree or a PhD, partly because those make it a lot easier to emigrate to the US. (I'm from South Africa, which doesn't have much of a software industry.)

What other things could increase earnings?

Doing an internship every summer.
Networking. Stanford's statistics on how 2011-2012 graduates found jobs indicates that around 29% of them got jobs through networking.
Better social skills? I'm planning on taking some classes on public speaking, improv, etc.; what else should I do?
Some way of signalling leadership skills? Maybe I could try to get into a leadership position at a student club or something.
Honors programs, or doing research. Do employers care about this?
Following the advice of Stanford's Career Development Center, for instance about how to prepare for career fairs, using their internship network, making appointments with their career counselors, etc.
Studying abroad. I'm already studying abroad by going to Stanford, so this is probably less valuable for me than for most students, though it still seems likely to be worthwhile. Stanford has a Washington program involving internships and classes taught by policymakers, which might be worth doing. Both these would make it harder to do multiple majors and minors.

Many thanks for all advice given!

EDIT: I used a scoring rule to rank all combinations of majors and minors in CS, math, economics and MS&E (management science and engineering) according to practicality and estimated effect on earnings. Unit estimates include all breadth requirements etc., assuming I don't take stupid courses. Here's the top 20; the top 10 all look pretty good:

CS	Math	Econ	MS&E	Total Units	Units per quarter	Hours/day

minor	minor	MAJOR	minor	198	16.5	7.1
MAJOR	.	minor	minor	207	17.3	7.4
minor	.	MAJOR	minor	189	15.8	6.8
minor	.	MAJOR	MAJOR	216	18.0	7.7
MAJOR	minor	minor	minor	216	18.0	7.7
minor	MAJOR	minor	minor	183	15.3	6.5
MAJOR	.	.	MAJOR	199	16.6	7.1
minor	MAJOR	minor	MAJOR	210	17.5	7.5
minor	minor	minor	MAJOR	180	15.0	6.4
minor	MAJOR	MAJOR	.	202	16.8	7.2
MAJOR	minor	minor	.	190	15.8	6.8
MAJOR	minor	.	MAJOR	208	17.3	7.4
MAJOR	MAJOR	.	minor	211	17.6	7.5
.	minor	MAJOR	MAJOR	192	16.0	6.9
minor	minor	MAJOR	MAJOR	225	18.8	8.0
MAJOR	.	minor	MAJOR	234	19.5	8.4
minor	.	minor	MAJOR	171	14.3	6.1
.	MAJOR	MAJOR	minor	195	16.3	7.0
minor	MAJOR	MAJOR	minor	228	19.0	8.1
MAJOR	minor	.	minor	181	15.1	6.5
MAJOR	MAJOR	minor	.	220	18.3	7.9
MAJOR	.	MAJOR	.	226	18.8	8.1
MAJOR	.	minor	.	181	15.1	6.5
minor	MAJOR	.	MAJOR	175	14.6	6.3
MAJOR	MAJOR	.	.	185	15.4	6.6
minor	minor	MAJOR	.	172	14.3	6.1
.	.	MAJOR	MAJOR	183	15.3	6.5
MAJOR	minor	MAJOR	.	235	19.6	8.4
MAJOR	.	.	minor	172	14.3	6.1

Another option is to major or minor in M&CS (mathematical and computational sciences) instead of math or CS separately.

EDIT 2: Here is a graph of graduates' salaries by major. Y-axis is salary of 2011-2012 Stanford graduates. X-axis is degree: 1 is BA/BS, 2 is MA/MS, 3 is PhD; intermediate values are for groups containing two degree-levels. The sample size is tiny because only 30% of students responded, and some groups were omitted for privacy.

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21 What should a college student do to maximize future earnings for effective altruism?

by D_Malik

27th Aug 2013

3 min read

21

I'd like to solicit advice since I'm starting at Stanford this Fall and I'm interested in optimal philanthropy.

Some majors that could have higher lifetime earnings than straight CS:

Petroleum engineering. Would non-oil energy sources cause pay to drop over the next 40 years?
Actuarial math. If I understand correctly, actuaries had high pay because they were basically a cartel, artificially limiting the supply of certifications to a certain number each year. And I've heard that people that used to hire actuaries now hire cheaper equivalents, so pay could be less over the next 40 years.
Chemical engineering, nuclear engineering, electrical and electronics engineering, mechanical engineering, aerospace engineering.
Pre-med.
Quantitative finance.

Thoughts?

I have a table with the unit requirements of each combination of majors and minors. Most students take 15 units a quarter. Here are some major/minor combinations I could do:

If I take 18.8 units a quarter, I could double-major in CS and econ.
If I take 15.8 units a quarter, I could major in CS and minor in math and econ.
If I take 15.4 units a quarter, I could double-major in CS and math.

Cal Newport argues that this sort of thing a bad idea because hard schedules do not actually impress employers more.

What other things could increase earnings?

Doing an internship every summer.
Networking. Stanford's statistics on how 2011-2012 graduates found jobs indicates that around 29% of them got jobs through networking.
Better social skills? I'm planning on taking some classes on public speaking, improv, etc.; what else should I do?
Some way of signalling leadership skills? Maybe I could try to get into a leadership position at a student club or something.
Honors programs, or doing research. Do employers care about this?
Following the advice of Stanford's Career Development Center, for instance about how to prepare for career fairs, using their internship network, making appointments with their career counselors, etc.
Studying abroad. I'm already studying abroad by going to Stanford, so this is probably less valuable for me than for most students, though it still seems likely to be worthwhile. Stanford has a Washington program involving internships and classes taught by policymakers, which might be worth doing. Both these would make it harder to do multiple majors and minors.

Many thanks for all advice given!

CS	Math	Econ	MS&E	Total Units	Units per quarter	Hours/day

minor	minor	MAJOR	minor	198	16.5	7.1
MAJOR	.	minor	minor	207	17.3	7.4
minor	.	MAJOR	minor	189	15.8	6.8
minor	.	MAJOR	MAJOR	216	18.0	7.7
MAJOR	minor	minor	minor	216	18.0	7.7
minor	MAJOR	minor	minor	183	15.3	6.5
MAJOR	.	.	MAJOR	199	16.6	7.1
minor	MAJOR	minor	MAJOR	210	17.5	7.5
minor	minor	minor	MAJOR	180	15.0	6.4
minor	MAJOR	MAJOR	.	202	16.8	7.2
MAJOR	minor	minor	.	190	15.8	6.8
MAJOR	minor	.	MAJOR	208	17.3	7.4
MAJOR	MAJOR	.	minor	211	17.6	7.5
.	minor	MAJOR	MAJOR	192	16.0	6.9
minor	minor	MAJOR	MAJOR	225	18.8	8.0
MAJOR	.	minor	MAJOR	234	19.5	8.4
minor	.	minor	MAJOR	171	14.3	6.1
.	MAJOR	MAJOR	minor	195	16.3	7.0
minor	MAJOR	MAJOR	minor	228	19.0	8.1
MAJOR	minor	.	minor	181	15.1	6.5
MAJOR	MAJOR	minor	.	220	18.3	7.9
MAJOR	.	MAJOR	.	226	18.8	8.1
MAJOR	.	minor	.	181	15.1	6.5
minor	MAJOR	.	MAJOR	175	14.6	6.3
MAJOR	MAJOR	.	.	185	15.4	6.6
minor	minor	MAJOR	.	172	14.3	6.1
.	.	MAJOR	MAJOR	183	15.3	6.5
MAJOR	minor	MAJOR	.	235	19.6	8.4
MAJOR	.	.	minor	172	14.3	6.1

Another option is to major or minor in M&CS (mathematical and computational sciences) instead of math or CS separately.

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metastable13y60

If you're interested in maximizing income, I would rule out pre-med. It's sub-optimal preparation for any career except medicine, and medicine is sub-optimal for income. A few reasons:

Salaries are essentially capped by reimbursement rates and man-hours. The best surgeon in the world isn't going to make more than a few million a year doing elective surgeries twelve hours a day year round.

The things that generate the most income for rich people with MD's, patents and start-ups and C-suite gigs, don't require the MD credential. There are better stepladders. The possible exception is medical celebrity, but the odds of you being the next Dr. Oz are extremely low.

The average physician makes far less over his lifetime than he could applying the same horsepower and hours worked to, say, finance. It's a fairly straightforward back-of-the-envelope calculation. In addition to losing seven to ten years of income after college (residency only pays a little above living wages) and possibly incurring $250K in student debt when money means the most due to time-value, you'll graduate into a market absolutely determined (for very understandable reasons) to bend the healthcare cost curve down and pay doctors less. American doctors are currently paid much, much better than doctors almost everywhere else in the world, due in large part to guild-like protections, and this cannot continue indefinitely. Globalization's already lined up to crush radiology and elective surgery, two of the better-remunerated fields, and IBM would very much like to put oncologists everywhere out of a job. Another half-dozen specialties are in turf battles against mid-level providers like nurses.

All that said, I highly recommend medicine. Just not for optimized philanthropy.

metastable13y20

Edit to add: WRT networking, it's kind of a suitcase word. Lots of people talk about it. I am sceptical that public speaking and improv classes are the best places to meet the best networking prospects, though they might be excellent for meeting interesting people. Athletes typically do better than the mean at Stanford-type schools in terms of career earnings, despite lower HS GPAs and test scores. If you're not currently a recruited athlete, you might still be able to walk on to the crew team or ultimate team.

6Lumifer13y

That doesn't seem obvious to me. Can I see that calculation? I suspect you're comparing the absolute top-of-the-line financial career trajectory (which is very very hard to achieve) with a typical doctor path.

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