ahbwramc comments on Should We Tell People That Giving Makes Them Happier? - Less Wrong

11 Post author: peter_hurford 04 September 2013 09:22PM

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Comment author: ahbwramc 05 September 2013 03:29:15AM 16 points [-]

I'm curious, have other people here found that giving makes them happier? I generally haven't found that to be the case. A typically givewell donation for me: a) reminds me that there's an obscene amount of suffering out there that I'm ignoring 99% of the time, and b) makes me feel guilty for not giving away more. I mean, I guess it makes me happier than not giving, since I'd feel even more guilty then. But in general it seems to me like the Peter Singer/Givewell/Effective Altruism approach to charity doesn't really lend itself to "feel-good" giving. More like, "soothe your conscience very slightly" giving.

Comment author: kbaxter 07 September 2013 12:09:47PM *  6 points [-]

I have the same issue. My solution is to set aside a block of money to give away, 80% of which goes to GiveWell's top choice and 20% of which I give away trying to maximize warm fuzzies. The warm fuzzies money ends up going to things like coworkers' fund raisers, friends who need it, NPR, and local causes I feel emotionally drawn to.

I'm pretty sure the warm fuzzies I get don't scale linearly with dollar amount, so I prefer to give lots of small amounts from the 20% instead of bulk-donating it to one thing. Ideally I would find a way to calibrate myself so I get the most warm fuzzies from giving to the most effective charities, but I haven't had success with that yet.

Comment author: [deleted] 06 September 2013 12:08:25PM 2 points [-]

As an ignorant child and young adult, giving small amounts of money made me slightly happier. It made me feel good about myself and I vastly overestimated the effect.

The moderate sums I later gave for explicitly utilitarian reasons didn't buy me as much happiness as self-centered spending would have. I'm hoping they bought more total happiness though.

Giving nontrivial money is like swimming upstream for me, motivationally speaking. The motivation is further decreased by knowledge of man-made inefficiencies, e.g. bans on taboo but pareto-improving voluntary exchange (example: for the right amount of money, I would gladly donate one of my kidneys).

Really effective causes tend to have speculative or otherwise indirect elements to them. For instance, veg*anism advocacy to reduce animal suffering or research funding for high-stakes topics. These may make most utilitarian sense, but they are less about allocating resources and more about putting some faith into causalities that may well be false. You pay, you get ads, but from there there's still a jump to actual reductions of actual suffering. You pay, you get funds for research institutions, but from there there's still a jump to actual applications that improve lives etc.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 09 September 2013 01:38:41AM 2 points [-]

Try thinking of units of expected value as things you are purchasing with your giving?

Comment author: [deleted] 09 September 2013 11:17:38AM 1 point [-]

Yes, I know. It's less about somewhat realistic expectations and more about visceral motivation. Especially when other people's choices are involved (meat consumption, using research in the rights ways, improvements that only pan out if people are somewhat rational and benevolent etc).

Technically, we can treat other people as systems to be manipulated, and I guess it even works. But psychologically, it feels dissatisfying. In addition, it feels low status, as it gives others the power to destroy my money's worth. This is even true for crucial research, the applications of which can just be banned, never used in benevolent ways, rejected by an irrational public for bad reasons, etc.

The methods to measure probabilities and impacts are also somewhat unclear to me. As is estimating unintended consequences.

Comment author: kalium 06 September 2013 05:10:59AM 2 points [-]

Giving to friends and family makes me happier because I get warm fuzzies and because social ties are strengthened, and sometimes because a more efficient outcome has been reached (e.g. while looking for something else in a thrift store I find for $1 an attractive article of clothing in the recipient's size and favorite color).

Giving to charity does not make me happier. In fact, the last time I gave to charity I felt guilty because my family could have used that money. Volunteering might make me happier (at least I wouldn't be effectively taking money away from someone I care about) but I haven't tried it yet so I don't know.

Comment author: Grant 06 September 2013 03:14:39AM 1 point [-]

I haven't found that to be the case with personal gifts either. I spend a lot of time trying to pick out good gifts, and generally seem to fail. It just seems so very much easier for someone to pick out something they enjoy for themselves than it is for someone else to do it. I find most gifts given to me undesirable, but still have to look happy and grateful to receive them. The majority of the time I'd rather not have gotten or given any gifts at all.

I keep trying to get friends and family to forgo the normal gift-giving holidays in favor of giving to charity, with limited success.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 09 September 2013 01:37:09AM 0 points [-]

If your current strategy for getting yourself to give is not working very well, you have a moral obligation to switch to my positive motivation strategy and forget about moral obligations :P

Comment author: J_Taylor 07 September 2013 02:01:33AM 0 points [-]

I sometimes have feelings of separation from my fellow man. Philanthropic activity tends to alleviate this. Likewise, it tends to buffer my emotions from feelings of personal inadequacy. Of course, these correlations are not sufficient to establish causation.

Also, I do get warm, fuzzy feelings. However, I do not hold these positive feelings to be as important as the suppression of negative feelings.