ygert comments on Three ways CFAR has changed my view of rationality - Less Wrong

102 Post author: Julia_Galef 10 September 2013 06:24PM

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Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 10 September 2013 12:07:18AM 4 points [-]

Instrumental and epistemic rationality were always kind of handwavey, IMO. For example, if you want to achieve your goals, it often helps to have money. So if I deposit $10,000 in your bank account, does that make you more instrumentally rational?

You could define instrumental rationality as "mental skills that help people better achieve their goals". Then I could argue that learning graphic design makes you more instrumentally rational, because it's a mental skill and if you learn it, you'll be able to make money from anywhere using your computer, which is often useful for achieving your goals.

You could define epistemic rationality as "mental skills that help you know what's true". Then I could argue that learning about chess makes you more epistemically rational, because you can better know the truth of statements about who's going to win chess games that are in progress.

I like the idea of thinking of rationality in terms of mental skills that are very general in the sense that they can be used by many different people in many different situations, kind of like how Paul Graham defines "philosophy". "Mental skills that are useful to many people in many situations" seems like it should have received more study as a topic by now... I guess maybe people have developed memetic antibodies towards anything that sounds too good to be true in that way? (In this case, the relevant antibodies would have been developed thanks to the self-help industry?)

Comment author: ygert 10 September 2013 12:16:28PM 0 points [-]

If we go by a definition based on actions, rather than skills, I think this problem goes away:

Let's define an action as instrumentally rational if it brings you closer to your goal. Let's define an action as epistemicly rationality if it brings your mental model of reality closer to reality itself.

Those are the definitions which I generally use and find useful, and I think they successfully sidestep your problems.

The question then remains how does one define rational skills. However, answering that question is less of an issue once you know what actions are instrumentally/epistemicly rational. If you may want to learn a skill, it is possible to ask whether the action of learning that skill falls under the categories mentioned above.

Comment author: tom_cr 11 September 2013 01:43:30AM 5 points [-]

Let's define an action as instrumentally rational if it brings you closer to your goal.

Suppose my goal is to get rich. Suppose, on a whim, I walk into a casino and put a large amount of money on number 12 in a single game of roulette. Suppose number 12 comes up. Was that rational?

Same objection applies to your definition of epistemicaly rational actions.