IlyaShpitser comments on Democracy and rationality - Less Wrong

8 Post author: homunq 30 October 2013 12:07PM

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Comment author: DataPacRat 30 October 2013 03:11:12PM *  1 point [-]

A couple of years ago, I tried imagining democracy from the point of view of some oligarchs at the top of their society - and, oddly enough, noticed that there seems to be a path by which a hierarchical, authoritarian society might decide to implement something resembling democratic reforms. Certain preconditions seem to be necessary:

  • The oligarchs need to be divided into competing factions, each struggling for dominance. (Nearly a certainty.)
  • The people need to be able to make a difference in the dominance struggle. (Eg, by being well-armed - longbows, crossbows, and rifles seem likely candidates)
  • The oligarchs need to be smart enough to avoid /unnecessary/ fights, to conserve their strength for the necessary ones.

Which leads to:

  • Some bright boy coming up with the idea of counting up the popular support for the oligarchical factions, so their input into the struggles can be figured out without having to go to all the trouble and muss of actually fighting.

I'm not a professional historian, so I'm not sure how well this can be argued to map to historical developments of democracies. But, at the least, it seems to be within the general bounds of plausibility, and doesn't make it into classroom civics classes, so it provides an alternate perspective to look at the whole shebang from, so if nothing else, it seems to be a useful mental tool, even if it's not an accurate description.

Comment author: IlyaShpitser 30 October 2013 03:23:36PM 5 points [-]

The idea that oligarchy naturally evolves (declines?) into democracy is an old one, famously expressed in Plato's Republic (still a good read, in my opinion).

Comment author: DataPacRat 30 October 2013 04:57:01PM 0 points [-]

I'm not sure about 'naturally'; it seems more likely that the various factors which /could/ combine to spur democracy will naturally wax and wane in different patterns, occasionally all lining up at the same time and providing would-be democrats an opportunity.

Then again, I could be wrong. Anyone have some decent references comparing how democracies have historically started off?

Comment author: Lumifer 30 October 2013 05:05:37PM 1 point [-]

Traditionally, the birth of democracy is attributed to Ancient Greece. I don't have references handy but I'm sure it's very googleable.

Comment author: DataPacRat 30 October 2013 05:15:03PM 0 points [-]

The original idea for it may come from there, yes; but why did that idea get implemented at any particular time, instead of earlier or later?

Comment author: Lumifer 30 October 2013 05:21:32PM 1 point [-]

Oh, boy. That's a topic about which there is little consensus, if any. You're basically asking for a comprehensive theory which explains how and why various political structures arose and fell in the course of history. That's a very contentious field filled with mindkilling mines...