shminux comments on Notes on Brainwashing & 'Cults' - Less Wrong

35 Post author: gwern 13 September 2013 08:49PM

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Comment author: shminux 13 September 2013 11:47:57PM 6 points [-]

Not sure what the purpose of this poll is. Brainwashing from birth with little or no exposure to alternative views is a quite different environment from the one NRMs operate in. How many Americans or Greeks (or pre-war Germans) believe that their country is the greatest? How many Russians believed in Communism in 1950s? The numbers are clearly a lot higher than any cult can hope to achieve.

Comment author: gwern 14 September 2013 12:11:38AM 13 points [-]

In particular, North Korea clamps heavily down on unauthorized information and makes up a lot of stuff. When your data is bad, it's not too surprising if your conclusions are bad.

Even people who are cynical about the regime probably aren't cynical enough. I forget the book I read this in (The Cleanest Race?) but I recall reading one story about a high-level NK official who was aware of the many abuses, but it wasn't until he learned from the Russian archives that the Korean War had actually been started by Kim Il-Sung after Stalin gave his permission (the official NK version is that the bloodthirsty capitalist SK dictator Syngman Rhee invaded NK unprovoked) that he realized just how far down the rabbit hole he had to go.

Comment author: Protagoras 14 September 2013 02:54:20AM *  3 points [-]

Admittedly, from what I recall of Rhee, it's likely that the only reason he didn't invade the North is because he knew how badly he'd lose; it's totally something he would have done if he'd had a better military.

Comment author: ikrase 14 September 2013 07:56:22AM 0 points [-]

Yeah, it's actually enough to make me wonder if just forcing information into the country would trigger a rebellion...