For now I will say this is an example of emotional abuse which would in most situations call for the severing of ties.
I agree gaslighting is bad. Ironically, most of the examples that come to mind (and the only example of attempted gaslighting happening to some I know) involve attempting to plant false memories that someone else was emotionally (and possibly also physically) abusing them.
Don't be absurd. Conversation over. Be advised that future comments of your on any of the subjects of emotional abuse, cults or creepiness will be voted on without reply unless I perceive them to be a danger to others. The reasoning you are using is both non-sequitur and toxic. I don't have the patience for it.
What I suspect is happening is you perceive evil "emotional abuse" as having occured and your reaction is "how dare eugine urge restraint."
I care about gaslighting, various forms of emotional blackmail and verbal abuse. Again, the fact that the phrase "emotional abuse" can be misused by someone in a cult does not make refusal to respond to actual emotional abuse appropriate or sane.
Yes, but is "actual emotional abuse" (to the extent it's an objective concept) occurring. In particular do you have any evidence that gaslighting (the only specific example you gave) occurred in any of the examples under discussion. Setrainly none of the things diego mentioned even suggest gaslighting was occurring.
What I suspect is happening is you perceive evil "emotional abuse" as having occured and your reaction is "how dare eugine urge restraint."
This is false. I object to the reasoning used in this conversation for the previously expressed reasons. I consider it disingenuous, with the inevitable caveat that I cannot reliably distinguish between disengenuity and sincere inability to think in a manner which I consider coherent. That is all.
For better or worse I viscerally experience more disgust when observing clever use of non-sequitur re...
Some old SIAI work of mine. Researching this was very difficult because the relevant religious studies area, while apparently completely repudiating most public beliefs about the subject (eg. the effectiveness of brainwashing, how damaging cults are, how large they are, whether that’s even a meaningful category which can be distinguished from mainstream religions rather than a hidden inference - a claim, I will note, which is much more plausible when you consider how abusive Scientology is to its members as compared to how abusive the Catholic Church has been etc), prefer to publish their research in book form, which makes it very hard to review any of it. Some of the key citation were papers - but the cult panic was so long ago that most of them are not online or have been digitized! I recently added some cites and realized I had not touched the draft in a year; so while this collection of notes is not really up to my preferred standards, I’m simply posting it for what it’s worth. (One lesson to take away from this is that controlling uploaded human brains will not be nearly as simple & easy as applying classic ‘brainwashing’ strategies - because those don’t actually work.)
Reading through the literature and especially the law review articles (courts flirted disconcertingly much with licensing kidnapping and abandoning free speech), I was reminded very heavily - and not in a good way - of the War on Terror.
Old American POW studies:
Started the myth of effective brain-washing. But in practice, cult attrition rates are very high! (As makes sense: if cults did not have high attrition rates, they would long ago have dominated the world due to exponential growth.) This attrition claim is made all over the literature, with some example citations being:
a back of the envelope estimate for Scientology by Steve Plakos in 2000:
Iannaccone 2003, “The Market for Martyrs” (quasi-review)
Singer in particular has been heavily criticized; “Cult/Brainwashing Cases and Freedom of Religion”, Richardson 1991:
“Overcoming The Bondage Of Victimization: A Critical Evaluation of Cult Mind Control Theories”, Bob and Gretchen Passantino Cornerstone Magazine 1994:
Gomes, Unmasking the Cults (Wikipedia quote):
“Psychological Manipulation and Society”, book review of Spying in Guruland: Inside Britain’s Cults, Shaw 1994
Anthony & Robbins 1992, “Law, Social Science and the ‘Brainwashing’ Exception to the First Amendment”:
“Brainwashed! Scholars of cults accuse each other of bad faith”, by Charlotte Allen, Lingua Franca Dec/Jan 1998: