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gwern comments on Rationality, competitiveness and akrasia - Less Wrong
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Comments (57)
Okay.
CrossFit is not that unique. It is just a type of working out hard.
I'm quite confident injuries result more frequently among those who work out hard.
I'll concede rhabdo is more common among CrossFitters than the general population. The point I should have focused (exclusively) on is that that is exactly what we should expect.
We see lots of concussions in football; lots of tennis elbow among tennis players; shoulder issues with powerlifters; knee problems in runners, etc.
The article seems to me to be fear mongering. It is the nature of highly competitive pursuits that they involve injuries.
More rhabdo among CrossFitters is like saying there are more drowning deaths among those who go swimming.
Meanwhile, the risks involved in living a sedentary lifestyle abound.
Sure, but once you've conceded that yes, CrossFit has an unusual increased risk of a disorder both deadly and detrimental to fitness, then you need to deal with objections that CFers would be better off with the next alternative: CF can't be the only type of working out hard, even if it prides itself on being the hardest work out around.
Modus ponens, modus tollens. That may just be a reason to avoid swimming as one's recreation unless one prefers it so much compared to the alternatives. 'Drowning' and 'rhabo' seem much worse than 'shoulder issues' or 'knee problems'.
Conceding there are risks inherent to CrossFit (or anything) is a good reason to consider alternatives. Then, you'll see the alternatives have risks, too.
Then, you may personally decide to partake in any activities for which you are willing to accept the risks.
And again, CrossFit isn't a magical, dangerous thing. CrossFit = a branded mix of strength/speed/endurance exercises. You can do it reasonably, or over-do it.
Rugby or football, on the other hand...
The article presented no data other than some evidence about meme propagation in the Crossfit community.
Rhabdo is a consequence of severely overexerting your muscles and is not specific to the types of exercise that Crossfit does. It is specific to motivation and the claim is that, basically, Crossfit overmotivates the newbies. Well, maybe. And maybe other fitness programs do, too. Without data it's really hard to tell and so far I haven't seen any.
This is news to me and of relevance to my exercise choices. Is it the consensus of all the people on lesswrong who have the name 'gwern' that following CrossFit's workout of the day routine is on net detrimental and to be avoided in favour of something else?
Haha no way. I hadn't even heard of rhabdo or CrossFit before I noticed this thread. I just read the article and realized it was a great showpiece for one of the rare circumstances where anecdotes can actually be informative.
Thankyou for explaining. Your reputation as an independent researcher is such that if you had researched the subject I'd just take your word for it. The expected value of information would have to be damn high before it would be worth looking into it myself to confirm. And even then my first thought would be "Value of information is high? Hire gwern at his going rate to do a more thorough analysis."
From my experience (anecdotal observation) is that with Crossfit what the participant brings into it largely determines what they take out of it. Now perhaps not all Crossfit boxes(gyms) share the same culture. But where I go there is a focus on form and scaling of workouts. Also those that are serious about progressing know how to hold back because rhabdo would destroy their(my) work and gains. Those who have no real goal except some loose idea of improved fitness and health never seem to push themselves hard enough to do damage. I'd say rhabdo would take a unique kind of desire to win over the pain to achieve.
Just to brag and promote: after a year of CF I've gained 6kg~ of muscle mass from 78kg to 84kg at 185cm. Crossfit is a tool to achieve fitness goals it doesn't provide the goals or the motivation just the means exercise both.