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shminux comments on The best 15 words - Less Wrong
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Wow, it's hard for me to imagine anyone saying this with a straight face.
You don't listen to conservative talk radio. The "top three" headline issues on Focal Point yesterday were 1) gay marriage, 2) transgendered rights, and 3) female dissatisfaction with the consequences of the sexual revolution.
I guess I imagine that LW regulars are less ideologically motivated that this. But, with Multiheaded on one end and Konkvistador on the other, I should have known better.
That's a good thing, right? :-D
You want to actually engage with any of those points, rather than just smirking and shaking your head?
Remind me; what are our divorce rates like and how many kids are currently raised by a single parent or in foster care these days? Which populations are expanding and which are disappearing (I always get the progressive whites and the traditional hispanics confused)? How old is the average age of someones first sexual encounter, how many lifetime partners do they have, and what is their lifetime risk of contracting an STI? When women are polled on how happy they are is it working women or housewives who come out ahead, and are modern women polled as more or less happy than their ancestors? Has the average male's testosterone level increased or decreased over the last few decades?
I would link you to the answers myself, but I have this mysterious feeling they'd just get dismissed out of hand if they came from me. So take an hour off some time when you're not that busy, look at the numbers for yourself and maybe you'll see why I don't find the idea as laughable as you do.
Let us suppose for the sake of comity that if we compare today's statistics to those prior to the sexual revolution in the 1960s, or hell even to those prior to women's suffrage in the early 1900s, we find that:
* divorce rates are higher now
* more children are raised by single parents now
* more children are in foster care now
* some populations expanded and others shrank
* average age of first sexual encounter is lower now
* number of lifetime partners is higher now
* lifetime risk of contracting an STI is higher now
* working women now report being less happy than housewives
* women now report being less happy than women then reported
* average male testosterone level has declined
Is it your position that discovering this should convince me that society is collapsing, and has been doing so since 1960/1900?
My rule is to not engage into specific arguments with anyone with clear signs of motivated cognition, since it is almost invariably futile, as their true objections are not in the arguments they put forward. I tend to try to figure out why it is important for someone in this state to believe what they believe. For example, it is pointless to discuss metallurgy with a 911 truther or a certain purported perpetual motion contraption with a free-energy crank.
Here are the signs of your motivated cognition: you use negative connotation-charged descriptions of purported trends and behaviors:
"promiscuity" instead of, say, "reduced incidence and duration of exclusive committed relationships",
"deviant sexual behaviors" instead of, say, "widening spectrum of sexual norm",
presuming that "roles" are inherently masculine or feminine,
"effeminate" instead of, say, "less gender-normative".
Clearly you have your reasons for passing judgment, whether consciously or not, and these reasons have to be elucidated before one can have a fruitful discussion on the effects of evolving sexual norms on the American society.
I think "using one word instead of eight" is not very good evidence of motivated cognition. Maybe if Moss had said "sluttishness" instead you would have a point.
The first question is that I don't see why many of the things you listed are bad.
Why is a high divorce rate bad? Why a lower age of the first sexual encounter (compared to what, by the way?) is bad? Why having many lifetime partners is bad?
The second question is how do you distinguish correlation and causation -- I'm looking at the male testosterone level.
As an aside, are you aware of Yvain's Anti-Reactionary FAQ?
Really? I find it easy... not just with a straight face, but while leaning forward in their seats and looking me straight in the eyes while making emphatic hand gestures.
Admittedly, I also anticipate as part of the same cluster being told that the solution is for everyone to truly accept the love of Christ into our hearts, which I expect to be less common on LW.