Viliam_Bur comments on What Can We Learn About Human Psychology from Christian Apologetics? - Less Wrong
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I actually find this framing -- that atheists are/were this semi-oppressed low-status group -- pretty unpersuasive. As a matter of fact that vast majority of atheists come from the most high status groups in society. And there is a long history of atheistic elites looking down on the superstitions of the proles. Even the admission of atheism itself doesn't so much signal low-status as it does a sort of untrustworthy amorality while simultaneously signalling intelligence and affiliation with high-status academics. Trust is certainly related to status; but I don't think it is quite the same thing. I would compare the social penalties of explicit atheism to something like the social penalties of "acting white" among African-American teenagers. It's not punishment for signalling low-status but punishment for signalling high-status in an unwanted way.
It seems like the atheist "movement" probably wouldn't have happened without our strong social pressures against explicitly recognizing cognitive superiority. The elimination of codified status increases resources spent on signalling un-codified status for the same reason violence only breaks out when there is uncertainty over who will win. And it seems like past generations of atheists routinely embraced a sort of noblese oblige about religion. "Yes, people who believe in God are certainly wrong but it is probably good for them and there is no need to show off how much smarter I am than they." Norms against paternalism make that attitude harder to hold today. The overall result is a climate of insecurity: the attitudes that used to let atheists keep quiet about their beliefs while maintaining a sense of superiority no longer exist. Some atheists might notice that the pledge of allegiance contains "under God" and most Americans don't want an atheist as President. Because of status insecurity they take these as genuine status threats and come up with this whole idea that they are an oppressed group.
Now, holding religious beliefs certainly comes with a cost. So maybe trying to make atheism even more high status is worthwhile. But religion appears to have genuinely beneficial effects on at least some people-- so I'm not sure that equation balances out the way us atheists would like it to. And of course, it is unlikely that outspoken atheists are really motivated by a desire to reduce the social costs of religiosity. If that were the case they would be content to advocate for the sort of secularized theism/ agnostic spirituality which is easier for people to adopt but contains almost no risk of fanaticism or misplaced attention on theology. Really, the only reason to adamantly advocate for a narrow metaphysical position that has zero practical implications is to show off how smart you are.
Really? I think the facade of successful argument is absolutely crucial for religious people to maintain the pretense that they are actually smarter than atheists. It's a much more successful set of signals than complaints about sinners or yelling about atheists going to hell. The latter has the reek of "yes, you might be low-status now but in Heaven everything will be made right".
The word "status" is too wide brush; sometimes is may be argued that both sides have higher status depending on which aspects one focuses on. Also, it may depend on country; although I think this specific case should be true for USA, too. Instead of debating whether a falling tree in an empty forest makes a sound, let's address the specific claims:
Okay, now it seems balanced, perhaps even better for the atheist side. Seems like religion's power is mostly in "talking", while atheists have power in "doing". An atheist must sometimes pay lip service to the religion, but the religious people are aware that often this is all they get. Now if the atheists stop even being respectful to religious people, they lost it all... or must organize a counter-attack. The religious people still have an advantage in numbers. But if they lose real power and respect, they will start losing the numbers, too. And I guess it already happens... just very slowly.
Looking back to my previous post... I guess this is what it feels like from inside to believe to be arguing for the underdog when in reality one merely signals their belonging to the winning faction. Interesting!
Most of what you're counting as victories for atheism seem to point more to secular reductionism or Enlightenment values than to atheism per se. I suppose there's an argument to be made that that sort of thing is implicitly atheist, but I'd be more comfortable saying that it represents a cultural tendency that might be excluded by some religious frameworks but basically runs orthogonal to religiosity as such. Most of the people originally spearheading the Enlightenment weren't atheists, although I wouldn't call many of them traditional religionists by any means.
Put another way, it's possible for atheist identity to be socially condemned but secular praxis not to be. Here in the US, it's not at all hard to find nominal Christians that nonetheless rely on secular reductionist models for pretty much all decisions not involving actual religious ritual; I'd even call that the norm in many segments of society. If you're feeling generous, you could also add a selection of moral issues that reduce to complicated sociological questions without much in the way of empirical backing.
Exactly.