fubarobfusco comments on [Link] Low-Hanging Poop - Less Wrong

36 Post author: GLaDOS 16 October 2013 08:51PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (37)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 18 October 2013 02:07:47PM 17 points [-]

Because punishment tends to immediately terminate the punished behavior, while not preventing it in the long run, punishment reinforces the punisher. The person doing the punishment is an agent under conditioning as well, but most folks fail to notice this.

Comment author: hyporational 18 October 2013 08:48:53PM 1 point [-]

Upvoted for the insight.

while not preventing it in the long run

I don't agree with this, but rewarding is clearly better, of course. It's easy to get tunnel vision when thinking about punishment, many of us have memories of injustice done in its name.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 20 October 2013 05:29:25AM 1 point [-]

but rewarding is clearly better, of course.

What do you mean by this? Rewarding everyone who fails to exhibit bad behavior? This has two problems:

1) Since most people behave well most of the time, this gets expensive quickly.

2) Human psychology is such that if there is a regularly given reward, people will simply readjust their baseline and thus will perceive being deprived of it as a punishment anyway.

Comment author: hyporational 20 October 2013 09:02:55AM 1 point [-]

I think you could have done the steelmanning yourself, but here you go:

1) Rewards can be social, in other words virtually free. You don't have to reward all good behaviour, in fact that probably makes it less effective. (like you already said yourself?)

2) Here's how I would do it: Always reward exceptionally good behaviour, sparingly reward ordinarily good behaviour.

This doesn't mean punishment should be never used, but it's difficult to build a positive relationship with someone you're punishing constantly.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 21 October 2013 12:36:06AM *  -1 points [-]

sparingly reward ordinarily good behaviour.

Of course, that means that unless you also punish bad behavior, it won't stand out from the ordinary good behavior.

but it's difficult to build a positive relationship with someone you're punishing constantly.

It's also difficult to build a positive relationship with someone who is constantly engaging in bad behavior.

Comment author: drethelin 18 October 2013 05:24:29PM 0 points [-]

This is actually the biggest problem with torture, in my opinion.