V_V comments on Blind Spot: Malthusian Crunch - Less Wrong

4 Post author: bokov 18 October 2013 01:48PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (184)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: V_V 21 October 2013 07:24:47PM 1 point [-]

So, just to be clear, your position is that markets will prevent population growth from stopping in the foreseable future or that population will gracefully set at the capacity level without violent oscillations?

Comment author: Lumifer 21 October 2013 07:40:07PM 0 points [-]

My position is that there is no alternative that you can credibly show to be better than the markets in dealing with the issue of resource scarcity.

Markets do not "prevent population growth from stopping". As to the gracefulness of landing, it's for the gymnastics judges to estimate. By the way, I do not expect the population to reach the "capacity level" in the foreseeable future.

Comment author: bokov 23 October 2013 11:03:43PM 0 points [-]

Here's what I expect someone who seriously believed that markets will handle it would sound like:

"Wow, overpopulation is a threat? Clearly there are inefficiencies the rest of the market is too stupid to exploit. Let's see if I can get rich by figuring out where these inefficiencies are and how to exploit them."

Whereas "the markets will handle it, period, full stop" is not a belief, it's an excuse.

Comment author: Lumifer 24 October 2013 12:59:47AM 1 point [-]

Here is what I sound like:

"Wow, overpopulation is a threat? I don't believe it. Show me."

Comment author: V_V 22 October 2013 05:46:50PM 0 points [-]

My position is that there is no alternative that you can credibly show to be better than the markets in dealing with the issue of resource scarcity.

I don't think anybody (but the most extreme leftists) is proposing a Soviet-like centrally planned economy, but without regulation, markets mechanisms alone don't necessarily deal well with resource scarcity. This has been both observed empirically and understood theoretically (tragedy of the commons, negative externalities, etc.)

By the way, I do not expect the population to reach the "capacity level" in the foreseeable future.

Why not? Growth rate is already in decline, and AFAIK, most models of world population growth predict a peak in this century.

Comment author: Lumifer 22 October 2013 06:30:14PM *  0 points [-]

without regulation

Well, markets don't exist in a vacuum, of course, they need a reasonable framework of law and order. Just to start with you need property rights and the ability to enforce contracts.

tragedy of the commons, negative externalities, etc.

That's a different thing that doesn't have much to do with the markets ability to deal with resource scarcity.

You keep pointing out that markets are not Jesus and they don't automagically solve all humanity's problems. Yes, yes, of course, but no one is arguing that. We're talking about a fairly specific problem -- dealing with resource scarcity -- and you keep on bringing up how markets don't solve violence and pollution...

Why not?

I expect the population to reach a plateau and stabilize at some point. I do not expect that plateau to be the capacity level of the planet.

Comment author: bokov 23 October 2013 11:05:51PM -1 points [-]

dealing with resource scarcity -- and you keep on bringing up how markets don't solve violence and pollution...

Well, they should provide a constructive alternative to the former, and the latter is isomorphous with a scarcity of non-polluted air/water/land.