Wind comments on The Futility of Emergence - Less Wrong

36 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 26 August 2007 10:10PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (125)

Sort By: Old

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 27 August 2007 03:40:37AM 7 points [-]

Aren't superconductivity and ferromagnetism perfect examples of emergent phenomena?

Yes. So are non-superconductivity and non-ferromagnetism. That's the problem.

Comment author: Perplexed 23 July 2010 08:54:55PM 12 points [-]

Uh. No. Non-superconductivity is not usually considered as an example of emergence. Because the non-superconductive system is composed of smaller subsystems which are themselves non-superconductive. Same goes for non-ferromagnetism. Not "emergent" because nothing new is emerging from the collective that was not already present in the components.

And even if what you wrote were true it would be a problem only if emergence were being used as an explanation. But, outside of the philosophy literature, it almost never is used that way. You are tilting at windmills here.

Comment author: Wind 28 July 2016 12:12:50PM *  2 points [-]

The apparent disagreement here, comes from different understandings of the word "non-superconductivity".

By "non-superconductivity", Yudkowsky means (non-super)conductivity, i.e. any sort of conductivity that is not superconductivity. This is indeed emergent, since conductivity does not exist at the level of quantum field.

By "non-superconductivity", Perplexed means non-(superconductivity), i.e. anything that is not superconductivity. This is not emergent as Perplexed explained.