katydee comments on New vs. Business-as-Usual Future - Less Wrong

2 Post author: katydee 05 November 2013 02:13AM

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Comment author: Locaha 05 November 2013 08:03:23AM 1 point [-]

Just think of the amount of energy available to an average person in the Roman Empire, compared to contemporary average person.

The modern period is nothing like anything else in the past.

Comment author: katydee 05 November 2013 08:52:22AM *  1 point [-]

Just think of the amount of energy available to an average person in the Roman Empire, compared to contemporary average person.

Why?

The modern period is nothing like anything else in the past.

I used to believe this, but I found myself astonished and dismayed by the extent to which the writings of the ancients dealt with the same concepts that we consider relevant today. In point of fact it doesn't seem to be the case that the human experience has meaningfully changed very much, despite modern access to energy, medicine, etc.

Certainly it is the case that the human experience is longer now, and less likely to end abruptly thanks to illness and the like, but it does not seem qualitatively different.

Comment author: Locaha 05 November 2013 06:04:34PM 4 points [-]

All so called "qualitative differences" are subjective. You are the one who draw the line and declare it to be the threshold for a qualitative change. The line tells us more about you than about the world.

Comment author: [deleted] 07 November 2013 05:14:35PM 0 points [-]

 the writings of the ancients 

Given that most ancients were illiterate, the ancients whose writings you've read aren't an unbiased sample of all ancients.

Comment author: Lumifer 07 November 2013 05:37:02PM 2 points [-]

I don't think anyone made any claims about unbiased samples...

Comment author: Vaniver 07 November 2013 08:14:41PM *  2 points [-]

If I were to say "I don't think the human experience has changed much because when I read Benjamin Franklin, I feel like I'm reading myself," I'm implicitly assuming that Franklin and I have representative experiences for our times. My experience might be more typical now than Franklin's was then; similarly, the Roman urbanite who reads very similarly to the American urbanite can mask the significant change in urbanization.

Comment author: Lumifer 07 November 2013 08:41:23PM *  1 point [-]

I'm implicitly assumes that Franklin and I have representative experiences for our times.

Well, kinda, but once you explicitly state this, the problems start to appear. Historical age is only one of many possible dimensions of differences between people. You start asking "representative of what?" Is your "human experience" closer to Ben Franklin's or to a contemporary sheep herder's in Mali?

Or consider a 2x2 table of four people: you, now; a Roman urbanite, say, around 0 A.D.; a sheep herder in West Africa now; and a sheep herder in West Africa around 0 A.D. How do similarities of experience play out?

Comment author: gwern 07 November 2013 08:06:37PM 1 point [-]

Most people aren't writers, period, so you're never comparing the ancients to an unbiased sample of any population either.

Comment author: shminux 05 November 2013 03:28:54PM 0 points [-]

Again, what are your metrics for sameness?