Pfft comments on To like, or not to like? - Less Wrong

2 Post author: PhilGoetz 14 November 2013 02:26AM

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Comment author: gwern 14 November 2013 06:34:39PM *  8 points [-]

When you do the numbers and they give you an answer, you don't dismiss it as "absurd".

One man's modus ponens is another man's modus tollens. You have amply explained why you reached the conclusion you did based on idiosyncratic personal preferences and constructed an unconvincing model to try to justify it; there are no 'numbers' here, there is only absurd reference class tennis. ('Stratford-on-Avon had 0.0001% of the medieval English population; the odds against the greatest English writer coming from Stratford-on-Avon is astronomically unlikely!') I am perfectly happy saying that the result refute the pseudo-premises - not that you gave a precise model in the first place: I will ask you again, what is the right amount of criticism for Shakespeare that would satisfy you that he really was the greatest writer ever?

My separation of classes chronologically is, like all good models, inspired by observation. In this case, the observation that a statistically-impossible number of the people considered "best in field" came very early in those fields, even in fields like literature where coming early is a disadvantage rather than an advantage as regards the quality or contemporary opinion of your work.

The damning point here is that you are willing to bite the bullet and say it applies to sciences as well, where we would, contrariwise, naturally expect the earlier a scientist to live, the easier it is to make incredible discoveries and pick up low-hanging fruit. Only an early scientists has a hope of discovering, say, gravity. Or an early mathematician something like calculus. You have to live as early as Parmenides if you want to discover something basic and extremely important like 'the moon is illuminated by the sun'.

Comment author: Pfft 15 November 2013 05:32:07AM *  0 points [-]

the earlier a scientist [lives], the easier it is to make incredible discoveries and pick up low-hanging fruit.

You are ignoring the distinction PhilGoetz made in the grandparent comment:

If the claims people made were along the lines of "X was the most influential in his field", we could expect this. But I often hear it stated as absolute ability.

Comment author: gwern 17 November 2013 03:20:11AM 1 point [-]

Is that a real distinction? When Shakespeare is the 'most influential', then in some respects, he is setting what it means to be 'able'. He is setting our norms and expectations, laying down the language we think and write in. John Keats: "He has left nothing to say about nothing or any thing." Ralph Waldo Emerson: "His mind is the horizon beyond which at present we do not see."

When a writer is so influencing (should I say, 'distorting'?), is it really meaningful to draw a distinction between 'influential' and 'able'? Like Phil's implicit claim that every writer has an equal chance of being Shakespeare, this is not something I am willing to instantly grant without inspection.