2013 Less Wrong Census/Survey

78 Post author: Yvain 22 November 2013 09:26AM

It's that time of year again.

If you are reading this post, and have not been sent here by some sort of conspiracy trying to throw off the survey results, then you are the target population for the Less Wrong Census/Survey. Please take it. Doesn't matter if you don't post much. Doesn't matter if you're a lurker. Take the survey.

This year's census contains a "main survey" that should take about ten or fifteen minutes, as well as a bunch of "extra credit questions". You may do the extra credit questions if you want. You may skip all the extra credit questions if you want. They're pretty long and not all of them are very interesting. But it is very important that you not put off doing the survey or not do the survey at all because you're intimidated by the extra credit questions.

It also contains a chance at winning a MONETARY REWARD at the bottom. You do not need to fill in all the extra credit questions to get the MONETARY REWARD, just make an honest stab at as much of the survey as you can.

Please make things easier for my computer and by extension me by reading all the instructions and by answering any text questions in the simplest and most obvious possible way. For example, if it asks you "What language do you speak?" please answer "English" instead of "I speak English" or "It's English" or "English since I live in Canada" or "English (US)" or anything else. This will help me sort responses quickly and easily. Likewise, if a question asks for a number, please answer with a number such as "4", rather than "four".

Last year there was some concern that the survey period was too short, or too uncertain. This year the survey will remain open until 23:59 PST December 31st 2013, so as long as you make time to take it sometime this year, you should be fine. Many people put it off last year and then forgot about it, so why not take it right now while you are reading this post?

Okay! Enough preliminaries! Time to take the...

***

2013 Less Wrong Census/Survey

***

Thanks to everyone who suggested questions and ideas for the 2013 Less Wrong Census/Survey. I regret I was unable to take all of your suggestions into account, because of some limitations in Google Docs, concern about survey length, and contradictions/duplications among suggestions. I think I got most of them in, and others can wait until next year.

By ancient tradition, if you take the survey you may comment saying you have done so here, and people will upvote you and you will get karma.

Comments (616)

Comment author: Frazer 02 May 2014 03:26:24AM 0 points [-]

Is there a way to be notified when the 2014 survey comes out?

Comment author: ChristianKl 02 May 2014 12:09:24PM 0 points [-]

The LW main blog isn't high volume so, simply subscribing to it's RSS feed should do the trick.

Comment author: JTHM 05 January 2014 05:02:22AM 1 point [-]

Was I the only person who shamelessly defected only because the defect/cooperate choice isn't really a prisoner's dilemma at all? Obviously, if enough of us defect that the payout is diminished, the winner receives less, but whoever would be paying for the prize would have that much less money missing from his pocket. I would not have defected if I expected my defection were to result in a net loss of resources. For the 2014 survey, how about we try this again, with the modification if enough people defect for the payout to be reduced, a good of equal market value to the reduction in payout shall be purchased and destroyed? (You can't just burn the money, because that's not actual destruction of value, just redistribution of value to everyone else who owns units of that same currency.)

Comment author: knb 06 January 2014 06:54:09PM *  1 point [-]

Was I the only person who shamelessly defected only because the defect/cooperate choice isn't really a prisoner's dilemma at all?

Nope, I said the same thing here.

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 06 January 2014 05:39:35AM 0 points [-]

or the 2014 survey, how about we try this again, with the modification if enough people defect for the payout to be reduced, a good of equal market value to the reduction in payout shall be purchased and destroyed?

Or perhaps for every person that defects Yvain forces himself to listen to X minutes of some music he despises, or watch some show he hates?

I really don't want Yvain to suffer penalties because of the defection of jerks, but that's what true 'defection' must mean, that someone gets hurt. All in all, I can't advise in good conscience for the test to be repeated next year.

Comment author: Oscar_Cunningham 19 January 2014 02:09:21AM 0 points [-]

That's still not "true defection" though, because we all like Yvain and don't want to annoy him.

Comment author: edanm 01 January 2014 02:53:31PM 2 points [-]

Answered. A day late - hope it's still counted, only saw this now.

Comment author: Frood 01 January 2014 08:45:17AM 0 points [-]

Just finished it. I missed the deadline, but it seems to have let me submit. Thanks for a good time!

I defected because I decided that I'm one of the last ones to complete the survey, so RIGHT NOW I have the choice between 4 tickets and 1 ticket in a lottery for approximately the same amount of money. My gut now tells me this was bad decision making, so...Contemplation Time!

Comment author: notsonewuser 01 January 2014 05:36:50PM 0 points [-]

My gut now tells me this was bad decision making

In Newcomb's problem, Omega's already left by the time you choose a box.

Comment author: ppp 31 December 2013 06:01:10AM *  6 points [-]

Finally registered, hereby delurked, and completed the survey with over 24 hours to spare! Looking forward to the results. Thanks for doing this.

I understand how tricky putting together a good survey can be, never mind having to make it play well on Google Forms. Probably the most vexing item for me was the Akrasia:Illness one. Because of the high levels of comorbidity among the choices, I can't imagine I was the only one wondering how to "select the most important".

I still have a long way to go in absorbing even a surface level of everything here, and relish the upcoming year for its potential to illuminate and enlighten. Some of the questions have already sent me off on further explorations.

Oh, also, igtheism/ignosticism would have been a nice choice to have (I've only recently discovered the terms, and found they matched pleasantly with my views on the subject).

Comment author: Rowdy 31 December 2013 01:51:29AM 4 points [-]

Done!

Yvain, thanks for taking the time to organise this! You're awesome! :-)

Comment author: Akiyama 29 December 2013 06:35:16PM 5 points [-]

I took the survey, then tried to sign up for Less Wrong.

Only to discover that I already had an account. So my answers to the questions of whether I had an account and how many karma points I had were wrong!

I just wanted to say - firstly, I'm surprised that "Liberal" is given as an option on the short political affiliation question, but not on the longer one! I wrote it in.

Secondly, I STRONGLY object to the UK Labour Party being given an example of a liberal party! I imagine that Americans would have the same reaction to the Republican party being given as an example of a liberal party (they freed the slaves, didn't they?). To my mind, the Labour Party of the 21st Century is both illiberal and right-wing.

Comment author: Alejandro1 29 December 2013 05:39:16PM 7 points [-]

Did it.

Comment author: William_Quixote 29 December 2013 03:06:34PM 6 points [-]

Survey taken!

Answered all questions.

-Survey caused me to realize that my mental model of Europe as EU does not line up with the world's model of Europe as geographical area. Good thing to learn.

-I think my answers to the CFAR questions are contradictory

-Would have liked more granularity in the vegetarianism question

Thanks very much to Yvain for running this

Comment author: malcolmocean 29 December 2013 05:18:26AM 9 points [-]

Completed survey.

Feedback: I feel like it would be valuable to disambiguate between "I'm planning to have more children in <2years" from "I'd like to someday have kids".

"am I a student?" and "how do I make money?" like separate questions to me. Like student is sort of an occupation, but it's not a way to earn money. I am both a student and self-employed, and about 6 months of the year I do internships = for-profit work.

It would be awesome if Time of LW included both a mean and median time or something, also perhaps a total time spent on it. For me it varies hugely, and I really had no idea what to put. Some weeks I spend many hours on it, other weeks 0.

Comment author: solipsist 28 December 2013 07:22:26PM *  5 points [-]

I've taken the survey.

The Prisoner's Dilemma question didn't do it for me. What will happen to the remainder of the $60? Will it be burned? Also I make enough money that winning $30 probably isn't worth the hassle and security risk to transfer it into my bank account.

EDIT Wow, that came out negative! Thank you Yvain for organizing this survey! Depriving money from you does not seem like an altruistic option.

Comment author: b_sen 26 December 2013 04:09:32AM *  9 points [-]

Delurked and taken (finally); this is my first comment. I'd been wanting to take this survey for a while, but offline matters kept me away until now. At least I got in a good stab at most of the extra credit questions.

I second the following suggestions:

  • Clarify the income question on tax status (pre-tax / post-tax / pre-some taxes and post-others) and individual vs. household. I mention the third tax possibility here because some taxes are deducted by the employer, so employees don't see that money in their paychecks. If the question intended is along the lines of "Other than tax refunds, how much money do you / your household receive (that you can use in a budget and could theoretically spend, although some of it may be set aside for further taxes) in a year?", then this matters.
  • Add a "None" option to the mental illness question to distinguish between "none" and "didn't answer". Checkboxes would be nice, since mental illnesses can interact with each other, but Yvain has stated that he can't put them in the survey. I will mention this anyway in case checkboxes become viable for future versions of the survey.

I will also make a further suggestion, although I understand that it may be too onerous to implement: have an option to make only part of one's responses private. I mention this because I started by choosing the "public but anonymous" option, but switched to "private" once I got to the point that all my responses together could probably identify me out of the dataset if someone was moderately determined to do so and knew a few specific facts about me.

In my case, making a single extra credit section private (showing it as if I hadn't answered in the public dataset) would have been enough for me to be comfortable putting the remaining responses in the public dataset. That section has data that I don't mind giving Yvain and CFAR, but don't want to leave readily available to potential future agents trying to identify my responses in the dataset. I would prefer to make only the single section private, but I did not have that option available. I am also curious if other people are in the same boat.

Should I win, I precommit to spending the prize on myself, as per Yvain's stated wishes for the prize.

Comment author: Fermatastheorem 23 December 2013 05:56:19AM 4 points [-]

Survey taken! Can't wait to see the results.

Comment author: Ichneumon 22 December 2013 11:39:22PM 6 points [-]

I took the survey! It was certainly the most interesting online information-gathering survey I've ever taken, mostly because of the end- in retrospect, not sure what I expected.

Comment author: henryruss 21 December 2013 09:47:33AM 5 points [-]

I did it! I place my faith in you people! COOPERATE

Comment author: mathnerd314 21 December 2013 02:59:55AM 6 points [-]

I took the survey; apparently I get karma for that? :-)

Comment author: Vika 20 December 2013 04:01:34PM 7 points [-]

Took the full survey (ouch, my calibration is terrible, especially if I misunderstand the question...). I find it a bit frustrating that it asks only about the SAT and ACT (which I haven't taken), and not, for example, the GRE. Otherwise it was really fun without taking very long, thanks Yvain!

Comment author: Darklight 17 December 2013 12:50:09AM *  4 points [-]

Took the survey. This survey made me remember that I've never actually done a proper IQ test. I should consider rectifying that situation. Other than that, I was surprised that your extensive "Complex Affiliation" political section did not include "Liberal". Modern Liberalism is a distinct political tradition that I would argue ought to be on such an extensive list, especially given that it's on the much shorter earlier list of political affiliations. :V

Also, though I don't yet "self-identify" with Effective Altruism, I do sympathize with their goals and ideals, and am mulling over the idea of joining the movement.

Aside from that, good work coming up with some quite clever questions. No doubt the results should make interesting fodder for thought.

Though one question, what happens if the first word of the two word passphrase is the same as someone else's? Am I fair to assume that anyone who was unable to come up with an original enough first word is effectively disqualified from winning the prize, or is the prize going to be shared among those who chose the same first word?

Edit: I just realized that technically what could happen with the two word passphrase is that even if two or more people had the same first word, chances are they would have different second words and so even if multiple people thought they had won after the first word was revealed, only the one with the correct second word would actually win. Which would suck for the others with that first word who didn't win, as they'd be given such hope and then have those hopes dashed. XD

Comment author: BT_Uytya 15 December 2013 02:24:31PM 6 points [-]

Took the survey and reminded my fellow Russians to participate too.

Comment author: [deleted] 15 December 2013 09:15:32AM *  7 points [-]

Comment author: gnomicperfect 15 December 2013 03:17:47AM 7 points [-]

I took the survey. Been lurking for about two years sans account.

I guess this makes me part of the borganism now.

Comment author: kvd 15 December 2013 02:27:34AM 6 points [-]

Participated!

Comment author: Mexamark 14 December 2013 03:18:09PM 9 points [-]

Done the survey. Nice touch at the end.

Comment author: ete 14 December 2013 07:59:26AM 8 points [-]

Done, including most bonus questions. Missed the IQ ones since I've never had that test, and defected before reading the comment saying the money was coming from someone's pocket rather than lesswrong (order of preference for where money is: my pocket>lesswrong>random lesswrong survey completer). Though I'd probably still defect knowing it's coming from Yvain.. ideally next time you could find a source of prize money who everyone wants to take money from?

Comment author: BrassLion 13 December 2013 03:12:31AM 8 points [-]

I took the survey. Very much awaiting the results, although the last question feels like Tragedy of the Commons rather than pure prisoner's dilemma.

Comment author: jknapka 12 December 2013 08:43:15PM 7 points [-]

Survey taken. I hope I didn't break it - I am a committed atheist, but also an active member of a Unitarian Universalist congregation, and I indicated that in spite of the explicit request for atheists not to answer the denomination question. (Atheist UUs are very common, and people on the "agnostic or less religious" side of the spectrum probably make up around 40% of the UU congregations I'm familiar with.)

Comment author: fortyeridania 11 December 2013 05:34:42AM 10 points [-]

Taken.

I defected. If I win I'll donate it all to GiveWell's top-rated charity--so the rest of you defectors have stolen statistical cash from the world's poorest! (Unless you were planning to do the same thing.)

Comment author: TheOtherDave 11 December 2013 05:40:34AM 0 points [-]

"stolen"?

Comment author: PhilSchwartz 10 December 2013 03:36:01AM 7 points [-]

Took the survey. Feels good to be posting a comment again, think it's potentially a way to get people to overcome the tendency to just lurk.

Comment author: vollmer 10 December 2013 01:20:25AM 9 points [-]

I took the survey, was fun!

Comment author: ww2 10 December 2013 12:18:06AM 7 points [-]

I've completed the survey

Comment author: BenPS 09 December 2013 08:27:03PM 11 points [-]

I took the survey.

Comment author: ColonelMustard 09 December 2013 05:04:45AM 9 points [-]

Took the survey. I assume from the phrasing that 'country' means where I'm "from" rather than where I currently reside (there is more room for uncertainty about the former than about the latter). Might be interesting to put both questions.

Comment author: radical_negative_one 09 December 2013 06:41:20AM 3 points [-]

The survey's exact wording is:

If multiple possible answers, please choose the one you most identify with.

So, if you for example grew up in France and currently live in the USA, and you thought of yourself primarily as being "from France" then France would be the correct answer. If you thought of yourself mainly as American, then USA would be the correct answer.

In other words, neither answer would be "wrong".

Comment author: ColonelMustard 09 December 2013 12:24:16PM 0 points [-]

"Where are you from" and "where do you live now" are different questions. The first of these has multiple answers for a lot of people I know; the second probably doesn't. I would suggest both questions be asked next year.

Comment author: Omegaile 08 December 2013 04:25:36AM 9 points [-]

I felt so rebel giving passwords right above Google's message:

Never submit passwords through Google Forms

Comment author: Jay_Schweikert 07 December 2013 09:57:50PM 5 points [-]

Answered every question to which I had an answer. I haven't spent much time on Less Wrong recently, but it's really pretty remarkable how just answering Less Wrong surveys causes me to think more seriously than just about anything else I come across in any given week.

Comment author: Bill_McGrath 07 December 2013 12:29:47PM 10 points [-]

Survey taken!

I tried it a few days ago and it didn't submit as far as I can tell - in between I looked up the answer to the calibration question, but I answered as I did originally (NAILED IT anyway).

Survey gripe: I answered "left-handed" for the handedness question, but I only really write with my left hand, and do everything else with my right. My left hand might be a little more dextrous but my right is definitely stronger. As such I'd see myself as cross-dominant rather than ambidextrous; is this something that could be included on future surveys or is it not useful for the kind of data you're collecting?

Comment author: fank1 06 December 2013 01:12:17PM 12 points [-]

Taken. Now self-consciously thinking up some witty comment, because I am in more of an introvert state right now.

Comment author: amcknight 06 December 2013 05:01:28AM 8 points [-]

Finally did it. I'd like exactly 7 karma please.

Comment author: [deleted] 07 December 2013 02:28:32PM *  3 points [-]

Done!

Comment author: discopirate 05 December 2013 05:35:38AM 18 points [-]

I took the survey, after having found out about the site a mere 15 minutes prior. As you might imagine this is my first comment.

Comment author: rstarkov 05 December 2013 02:52:21AM 15 points [-]

This has been the most fun, satisfying survey I've ever been part of :) Thanks for posting this. Can't wait to see the results!

One question I'd find interesting is closely related to the probability of life in the universe. Namely, what are the chances that a randomly sampled spacefaring lifeform would have an intelligence similar enough to ours for us to be able to communicate meaningfully, both in its "ways" and in general level of smarts, if we were to meet.

Given that I enjoyed taking part in this, may I suggest that more frequent and in-depth surveys on specialized topics might be worth doing?

Comment author: fiddlemath 04 December 2013 06:50:22PM 16 points [-]

Census'd! And upvoted! But an upvote isn't really quite strong enough to demonstrate my appreciation for this work. Thank you.

Comment author: anonym 04 December 2013 04:49:02AM 16 points [-]

Survey completed. I cooperated without thinking about it much. I believed that TDT-like reasoning would probably lead a significant number of others to cooperate too, and I felt I should support the group.

Comment author: christopherj 03 December 2013 01:00:56AM 16 points [-]

Survey taken. I'm particularly interested in what the ratio between an individual's estimate of alien life in the milky way vs observable universe is (not just the individual averages)

Comment author: MondSemmel 02 December 2013 05:16:24PM 16 points [-]

Answered the survey, including the bonus questions. Took me 32 min altogether. Comments:

How many people are aware of their IQs? I'm from Germany and have never taken an IQ test. Is knowing about one's IQ common enough in the US that not making that question a bonus question made sense?

There were quite a few questions (e.g. estimate weekly internet consumption, estimate how often you read about ideas for self-improvement) which felt pointless - how could you possibly get accurate estimates from people, given how ambiguous these questions were, and how difficult these estimates are?

The money question: After I failed to come up with a unique passphrase, I chose cooperate and left the rest blank. This kind of stuff tempts my perfectionism, and that's a lose-lose situation for me.

Comment author: Erik 02 December 2013 01:30:02PM 14 points [-]

Took the survey.

Comment author: DanielVarga 01 December 2013 08:18:05PM 14 points [-]

Amusingly, google chrome autofill still remembered my answers from last year. This made filling the demographic part a bit faster, and allowed a little game: after giving a probability estimation I could check my answer from a year ago.

Comment author: [deleted] 01 December 2013 05:13:31PM 4 points [-]

In the Wikipedia article about Europe, the figure for the population in the infobox is slightly different from that in the main text of the lead section.

Comment author: blashimov 01 December 2013 04:33:42PM 11 points [-]

All the extra credit questions!

Comment author: OneGotBetter 01 December 2013 10:23:58AM 13 points [-]

Submitted!

I really liked the questions last year related to if you had $x, how happy would you be? I know I missed the 1 week comment period for this survey, but Yvain, could you put those questions in again next year??

cheers

Comment author: Terdragon 01 December 2013 06:10:03AM 1 point [-]

Is there anywhere I can read an explanation of (or anyone who can explain) the distinction between "Atheist but spiritual" and "Atheist and not spiritual"?

Comment author: blashimov 01 December 2013 04:35:52PM 2 points [-]

My understanding, you might believe in some continued life after death, something about human souls, any sort of supernatural things, but not believe in a personified interacting deity who gave humans orders like worship me, do this/that etc., nor be a deist who thinks there is such a being but doesn't give orders for some reason.

Comment author: Terdragon 01 December 2013 09:27:45PM 1 point [-]

Okay. Good thing I submitted "Atheist and not spiritual", then!

I guess that makes sense. When I hear "Atheist but spiritual" my first response tends to be "Sure, I would appreciate songs and rituals about the wonders of science and the awe-inspiring nature of the universe. That's spirituality, right?" -- and my first response tends not to be "Oh, right, I guess there technically could be people who believe in supernatural stuff that's not gods." Perhaps because I tend to forget such beliefs exist...

Comment author: RussellThor 01 December 2013 02:38:03AM *  12 points [-]

Yes I did the survey. PW: one two.

Firstly I need to also say that giving probabilities to things that are either very low or very unknown is not very helpful. For example, aliens etc I don't know and as others have pointed out, God or simulation master, are they the same thing? Also giving the probability to us being Boltzmann brains or something very weird like that is undefined as it involves summing over the multi-verse which is un-countably infinite etc. For the simulation hypothesis I think we simply cant give a sensible number.

On a more general note, for friendly AI/unfriendly AI I think more attention should be on the social and human aspect. I don't see what maths proofs have to offer here. We already know you can potentially get bad AI because if you get an evil person say then give them a brain upload, self modifying powers etc, then they quite possibly will self modify to make themselves even more evil and stronger, turn off their conscience etc. What the boundaries of this are we don't know and need actual experiments to find out. Also how one person behaves and a society of self modifiers could quite possibly be a very different matter. Questions like do a large range of people with different values converge or diverge when given these powers is what we want to know.

Comment author: KnaveOfAllTrades 01 December 2013 02:11:05AM 16 points [-]

Did the whole thing. Cheers to all involved. :)

Comment author: aletheianink 01 December 2013 12:51:51AM *  13 points [-]

I took the survey.

Comment author: loup-vaillant 30 November 2013 11:19:49PM *  13 points [-]

I took the survey (answered nearly everything).

Comment author: ChrisHibbert 30 November 2013 07:56:01PM 11 points [-]

I don't answer survey questions that ask about race, but if you met me you'd think of me as white male.

I'm more strongly libertarian (but less party affiliated) than the survey allowed me to express.

I have reasonably strong views about morality, but had to look up the terms "Deontology", "Consequentialism", and "Value Ethics" in order to decide that of these "consequentialism" probably matches my views better than the others.

Probabilities: 50,30,20,5,0,0,0,10,2,1,20,95.

On "What is the probability that significant global warming is occurring or will soon occur, and is primarily caused by human actions?", I had to parse several words very carefully, and ended up deciding to read "significant" as "measureable" rather than "consequential". For consequential, I would have given a smaller value.

I answered all the way to the end of the super bonus questions, and cooperated on the prize question.

Comment author: roryokane 30 November 2013 07:20:49PM *  9 points [-]

I took the survey.

I chose to Defect on the monetary reward prize question. Why?

  • I realized that the prize money is probably contributed by Yvain. And if $60-or-less were to be distributed between a random Less Wrong member and Yvain, I would rather as much of it as possible go to Yvain. This is because I know Yvain is smart and writes interesting posts, so the money could help him to contribute something to the world that another could not. Answering Defect lowers the amount of prize money, making Yvain keep more of it.
  • Also, I would rather I have the $60-or-less than anyone other Less Wrong member, and answering Defect gets me a bigger chance of that happening.

Edit: pgbh had the same reasoning.

Comment author: hibiscus 30 November 2013 01:19:12AM 17 points [-]

Always lurking, never commenting, but I'm happy to participate in the survey since the results are interesting to read.

Comment author: goatherd 30 November 2013 12:16:14AM 11 points [-]

For the questions about the many worlds hypothesis, and whether we are living in a simulation, it seems to me that there is no way to know the truth, because the world would look just the same, but it may sometimes be useful to think as if they were true? Or am I just missing something fundamental?

I enjoyed reading about the MONETARY REWARD.

Comment author: hyporational 30 November 2013 01:12:44PM *  0 points [-]

For simulations, some people think it's possible to know. The argument is based on anthropics. The Quantum Physics Sequence might make you more certain of the MWI, but I haven't read it. You could also base your probability of MWI on Occam's Razor somewhat, since it seems to be the simpler interpretation.

Comment author: westward 29 November 2013 08:52:12PM 13 points [-]

I have taken the survey!

Comment author: Dr_Manhattan 29 November 2013 07:47:29PM 14 points [-]

I had to skip "Professional IQ test" questions, having never taken one. What's a cost-effective way to get this done?

Comment author: aletheianink 01 December 2013 12:53:40AM 1 point [-]

I live in Australia and took the entrance to Mensa IQ test. I was accepted but not given a number, and was told to contact the evaluating psychologist (even though I wasn't sure how to find that out). That may be a way to do things, but since I never followed through I don't know how hard it is to get the results like that. I just put the lower bound for Mensa entrance because I know I at least got that, and mentioned it in the comments so they can discount it if it's not very useful.

Comment author: elseif 29 November 2013 04:54:21PM 8 points [-]

Took the survey. I just missed last year's, so I was glad to get to participate this year.

Comment author: pgbh 29 November 2013 04:38:43PM 10 points [-]

Took the survey.

I chose to defect. Defecting maximizes the expected payoff for me personally, and the expected overall payoff isn't affected by my decision since Yvain just keeps whatever money isn't claimed.

An interesting variant would have been for Yvain to throw away whatever money was lost due to defections, or donate it to some organization most don't like. In that case I would probably have cooperated.

Comment author: Brendon_Wong 29 November 2013 08:25:44AM *  11 points [-]

Answered all questions, I hope I helped!

I'm very curious to see how the monetary reward works out.

Comment author: ChristianKl 29 November 2013 08:04:22AM 10 points [-]

I took the survey. In a bit sad that there are less questions than last year, but in total I like it.

Comment author: Tenoke 28 November 2013 04:09:28PM 13 points [-]

Took the full survey again. I am kind of sad that we didn't get some of last years questions which resulted in awesome answers such as the 'describe lesswrong in a sentence' one.

Comment author: dougclow 28 November 2013 08:09:11AM 13 points [-]

I took the survey.

I, like many others, was very amused at the structure of the MONETARY AWARD.

I'm not sure it was an advisable move, though. There's an ongoing argument about the effect of rewards on intrinsic motivation. But few argue that incentives don't tend to incentivise the behaviour they reward, rather than the behaviour the rewarder would like to incentivise. In this instance, the structure of the reward appears to incentivise multiple submissions, which I'm pretty sure is not something we want to happen more.

In some contexts you could rely on most of the participants not understanding how to 'game' a reward system. Here, not so much, particularly since we'd expect the participants to know more game theory than a random sample of the population, and the survey even cues such participants to think about game theory just before they submit their response. Similarly, the expectation value of gaming the system is so low that one might hope people wouldn't bother - but again, this audience is likely to have a very high proportion of people who like playing games to win in ways that exercise their intelligence, regardless of monetary reward.

So I predict there will be substantially more multiple submissions this time compared to years with no monetary reward.

I'm not sure how to robustly detect this, though: all the simple techniques I know of are thwarted by using a Google Form. If the prediction is true, we'd expect more submissions this year than last year - but that's overdetermined since the survey will be open for longer and we also expect the community to have grown. The number of responses being down would be evidence against the prediction. A lot of duplicate or near-duplicate responses aren't necessarily diagnostic, though a significant increase compared to previous years would be pretty good evidence. The presence of many near-blank entries with very little but the passphrase filled in would also be very good evidence in favour of the prediction.

(I used thinking about this as a way of distracting myself from thinking what the optimal questionnaire-stuffing C/D strategy would be, because I know that if I worked that out I would find it hard to resist implementing it. Now I think about it, this technique - think gamekeeper before you turn poacher - has saved me from all sorts of trouble over my lifespan.)

Comment author: ExaminedThought 28 November 2013 02:06:04AM 10 points [-]

I answered everything I could. I wish I could have put what my IQ is, but I've never taken an official test. I'm not sure I want to know what my IQ really is. If it's lower than I want, I think I'll feel inferior, envious, and generally frustrated that I can't do much to improve it.

Comment author: aletheianink 01 December 2013 12:55:18AM 0 points [-]

I don't know if this helps, but I felt the same way, and took the Mensa entrance test to find out my IQ. Turns out that they don't actually give you the results, just tell you if you've entered ... and at the moment, that's satisfied my desire to know without feeling unhappy it's not high enough.

Comment author: [deleted] 28 November 2013 08:50:16PM 6 points [-]
Comment author: TheOtherDave 28 November 2013 02:23:44AM 0 points [-]

If it's lower than I want...

What do you want your IQ to be?

Comment author: ExaminedThought 28 November 2013 02:26:59AM 0 points [-]

130 at bare minimum is what I think to myself, but the higher the better. It feels shallow to admit that.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 28 November 2013 02:54:34AM 1 point [-]

(nods) So, would you rather know what it is now, so you can either be content at having achieved your goal or know how much you have to increase it by to achieve your goal? Or would you rather remain ignorant?

Comment author: drnickbone 28 November 2013 12:05:24AM 9 points [-]

Taken the survey, for the second time. Doesn't feel like a year...

I'm a bit curious about the Prisoners' Dilemma question. I co-operated, as my rationale was "Well, I'm unlikely to win anyway, and I don't really want to spoil the prize for whoever does win, so C". Not sure if that counts as a true PD...

Comment author: Baughn 29 November 2013 11:35:49AM *  2 points [-]

It doesn't. For it to be a true PD, you'd need to feel it's wrong for someone else to get the prize instead of you, as per the article of the same name. It's hard to define a true PD with humans.

Comment author: jaime2000 27 November 2013 11:16:24PM *  14 points [-]

Surveyed; hope to receive karma per most ancient tradition.

I think your relationship preference question conflates very different clusters. You should differentiate between the kind of polyamory which is trendy in rationalist communities these days, the kind where a wealthy/high-status man is allowed to keep more than one wife (or a wife and couple of mistresses), the kind of serial monogamy which is the default relationship model of the West and Western-influenced countries today (have lots of sexual long-term boyfriend/girlfriend relationships, marry one of these, divorce, repeat), arranged marriages in cultures in which divorce is impossible or virtually impossible, and perhaps some other empirical clusters on relationship-space which I am forgetting about.

After several years of answering the probability questions I finally grew tired of them and left them blank. You would have been more likely to get a response from me if you had used radio buttons like with the political questions (0-25%, 25-50%, 50-75%, 75-100%, or something like that).

Also, next year I would like to see more hypothetical questions. Both standard ones like the Prisoner's Dilemma, the Trolley Problem, etc... and additionally any novel ones you can think of that will reveal interesting attitudes in their responses (for example, that time you asked a cryonics question disguised as an angel reincarnation question).

Finally (and this has been driving me nuts for a couple of years), I keep answering that I was referred to LessWrong by a certain website (that is not a blog). But your referral question has no option for "website", so I write-in the name in "other". Except that when you do the analysis, you apparently lump this answer under the "blog" category, so presumably you wanted me to answer "blog" when I took the survey. But not all websites are blogs (even if all blogs are websites)! Is there any way you can reword that question?

Comment author: Crude_Dolorium 27 November 2013 08:07:02PM *  14 points [-]

Apparently I don't participate in the community. I only comment once a year, to report that I took the survey.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 27 November 2013 11:54:59PM 4 points [-]

This causes your %positive score to be awesome. :-)

Comment author: kokotajlod 27 November 2013 03:06:05PM 12 points [-]

I enjoyed taking this survey. Thanks!

I can't wait to see the results and play with the data, if that becomes possible.

Comment author: ahbwramc 27 November 2013 02:17:08PM 13 points [-]

Took the survey. I was pretty confident about my answer for Europe because I thought I remembered the number, but it turns out I was wayyy off. So I looked it up and yep, sure enough, the number I was remembering was for the EU, not Europe as a whole. So, uh, whoops.

Comment author: Baughn 27 November 2013 01:34:45PM 15 points [-]

I thought Europe was about a third the size it actually is, whee! On the bright side, at least I didn't claim to be confident about that.

On the god/simulation questions, I answered them using the theory that they're the same thing, but in retrospect perhaps that isn't quite what you had in mind?

Comment author: sullyj3 27 November 2013 10:36:27AM 10 points [-]

I've never been IQ tested.

Comment author: Blazinghand 27 November 2013 08:46:22AM 18 points [-]

I made an account after taking this survey.

Comment author: Zian 27 November 2013 06:23:16AM 14 points [-]

I took the survey a few days ago and ran into trouble trying to answer the IQ test-related questions (IQ/SAT/ACT/etc.) because I would have to dig around for the answers to those questions and that required more effort than I wanted to spend on a survey.

The instructions for entering percents was also a bit confusing.

Other than that, the survey was well designed. I really appreciated how clear you were about where it was OK to stop and that it was fine to leave things blank.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 27 November 2013 06:33:55PM 1 point [-]

The instructions for entering percents was also a bit confusing.

Do you have any advice for what kind of instruction would be less confusing?

Comment author: Nornagest 27 November 2013 07:57:40AM *  1 point [-]

It's probably fine to answer the standardized test-related questions to the best of your recollection instead of bothering to dig out paperwork. I'm fairly sure the SAT score I gave was exact, since that number ended up having moderately important consequences for me, but I may have been a point or two off on the ACT, or up to three or four on IQ.

The error bars on the wider survey are almost certainly wide enough that that level of imprecision in individual reporting is of absolutely no consequence, if your experience is anything like mine.

Comment author: kalium 27 November 2013 05:25:21AM 11 points [-]

Took survey. Now realize that given the first phrase of my passphrase the second word is easily determined. To enable me to claim the prize anyway should I win it: it is powdery and turns red and black in reaction to potassium hydroxide.

Comment author: undermind 26 November 2013 08:56:35PM *  20 points [-]

Did the survey.

Results: I'm better at estimating continental populations than I had thought; I am frustrated by single-option questions in many cases (e.g. domain of study, nothing for significantly-reduced-meat-intake-but-not-strict-vegetarian, interdependent causes of global catastrophe) and questions that are too huge to be well-formulated, let alone reasonably answer (supernatural/simulation/God).

Also the question about aliens made me unaccountably sad: even if I retroactively adjust my estimates of intelligent alien life upwards (which I would never do), I have to face the incredibly low probability that they're in the Milky way.

Comment author: Martin-2 26 November 2013 08:23:03PM 14 points [-]

Done. I hate to get karma without posting something insightful, so here's a song about how we didn't land on the moon.

Comment author: redlizard 27 November 2013 03:14:45AM 2 points [-]

Taking the survey IS posting something insightful.

Comment author: gjm 26 November 2013 11:44:09PM 2 points [-]

Just to check whether I've understood: Do you in fact consider that song insightful? If so, what insight do you think it embodies?

(I'm trying to figure out whether you, or they, are being ironic, or whether you are seriously endorsing as insightful a song that seriously complains that the Apollo moon landings were fake. My prior for the latter is rather low, but evidence for the former just doesn't seem to be there.)

Comment author: JoshuaZ 26 November 2013 11:47:50PM 0 points [-]

Apparently it comes from an album each of which is a song arguing for a different conspiracy. Perhaps they are meant as parody?

Comment author: gjm 26 November 2013 11:49:12PM 2 points [-]

I do so hope so.

Comment author: Martin-2 27 November 2013 01:19:45AM 1 point [-]

I'm a musician if that's any hint.

Comment author: Tristan 26 November 2013 07:39:24PM 15 points [-]

Finally had time to take the survey. I missed the on-line IQ test from the previous survey. Since I haven't taken any professional IQ-test I had to leave the question blank.

Comment author: torekp 26 November 2013 05:45:34PM 14 points [-]

Took the survey. Got the Europe question right, although if you believe my confidence level (25%), pretty much by sheer luck.

Comment author: NNOTM 26 November 2013 02:42:55PM 20 points [-]

I took it. I was surprised how far I was off with Europe.

Comment author: scav 26 November 2013 02:39:45PM 18 points [-]

Fun as always. Looking back at my answers, I think I'm profoundly irrational, but getting more aware of it. Oh well.

Comment author: Lion 26 November 2013 07:17:29AM *  20 points [-]

I already commented on other people's comments and got Karma while not stating that I took it. Am I still supposed to just say "I took it" and get more Karma without commenting anything more of value? Well, I took it. All of it. And I chose to "cooperate" because it seemed more ethical. 30$-60$ isn't enough to arouse my greed anyway.

Oh, btw. Hi everybody, I'm new here even though I created this account years ago when I was lurking. I knew I'd come back.

Comment author: witzvo 26 November 2013 08:39:35AM 3 points [-]

Am I still supposed to just say "I took it" and get more Karma without commenting anything more of value? Well, I took it.

Yup. Your points on the earlier comments were just the "ordinary" kind.

Comment author: SolveIt 26 November 2013 05:59:58AM 21 points [-]

Done. Loved the prisoner's dilemma.

Comment author: Solvent 26 November 2013 05:47:45AM 21 points [-]

I took the survey.

Comment author: peter_hurford 26 November 2013 05:09:18AM 21 points [-]

Survey'd!

Comment author: BronecianFlyreme 26 November 2013 04:32:18AM 21 points [-]

Surveyed! And for the first time, too. This survey was pretty interesting and definitely not what I expected

Comment author: Rixie 26 November 2013 04:23:34AM 21 points [-]

Yay, survey taken!

I loved the Prisoner's Dilemma at the end, I wonder how that will turn out?

Comment author: [deleted] 26 November 2013 04:18:16AM *  23 points [-]

I did the survey, mostly.

Comment author: djm 26 November 2013 02:14:04AM 23 points [-]

Well that was the most interesting survey I have taken in a long time - looking forward to seeing the results. I was a little concerned at the start, as it seemed like some sort of dating service so the comment 'hang in there - this bit is almost over' was well placed.

Comment author: Furcas 26 November 2013 01:15:32AM 22 points [-]

Did all of it. Monetary reward questions made me laugh.

Comment author: jazmt 26 November 2013 01:15:06AM 12 points [-]

I noticed a bunch of people saying that they will donate the money if they win. I find that a surprisingly irrational sentiment for lesswrong. Unless I am missing something, it seems people are ignoring the principle of the fungibility of money. It seems like the more rational thing to do would be to commit to donating 60$ whether or not you win. (If your current wealth level is a factor in your decision, such that you will only donate with the higher wealth level with the prize, then this can be modified to donating whether or not you win if you receive a windfall of 60$ from any source (your grandmother gives a generous birthday present, your coworker takes you out to lunch every day this week, you find money in the street, you get a surprisingly large bonus at work, your stocks increase more then expected etc))

Comment author: Jiro 26 November 2013 06:42:30AM 1 point [-]

People intend to donate the money when they win because they don't want the prospect of gaining money to influence their decision. Donating it is just an alternative to burning it. (It does also follow that those people who donate it for this reason must find the utility of such a donation to be very small.)

Comment author: jazmt 26 November 2013 04:20:08PM 2 points [-]

By 'their decision' do you mean the decision to cooperate or defect? If so you would predict people would not offer to donate if there was no choice involved (e.g. all participants in the survey automatically receive one entry)?

It does not seem like this is what people are describing e.g. http://lesswrong.com/lw/j4y/2013_less_wrong_censussurvey/a3xl http://lesswrong.com/lw/j4y/2013_less_wrong_censussurvey/a2zz and http://lesswrong.com/lw/j4y/2013_less_wrong_censussurvey/a36h

Comment author: maia 25 November 2013 11:58:27PM 22 points [-]

I did it!

Comment author: Ander 25 November 2013 10:56:37PM 18 points [-]

Took the survey, and finally registered after lurking for 6 months.

I liked the defect/cooperate question. I defected because it was the rational way to try to 'win' the contest. However, if one had a different goal such as "make Less Wrong look cooperative" rather than "win this contest", then cooperating would be the rational choice. I suppose that if I win, I'll use the money to make my first donation to CFAR and/or MIRI.

Now that I have finished it, I wish I had taken more time on a couple of the questions. I answered the Newcomb's Box problem the opposite of my intent, because I mixed up what 2-box and 1-box mean in the problem (been years since I thought about that problem). I would 1-box, but I answered 2-box in the survey because I misremembered how the problem worked.

Comment author: notsonewuser 01 January 2014 05:19:47PM 0 points [-]

If you had to play Newcomb's problem against the Less Wrong community as Omega, would you one-box or two-box? The community would vote as to whether to put the money in the second box or not; whichever choice got more votes would determine whether the money was in the second box or not. Each player from the community would be rewarded individually if e guessed your choice correctly.

Comment author: Eneasz 26 November 2013 04:41:19PM 0 points [-]

So if a group using your decision-making-process all took this survey, "rationally" trying to win the contest, they would end up winning $0. :)

Comment author: Ander 26 November 2013 06:49:09PM -1 points [-]

Correct, just like people trying to 'win' a single iteration prisoner's dilemna problem would defect.

I'm not claiming its the morally correct option or anything, just that its the correct strategy if your goal is to win.

Comment author: Eneasz 26 November 2013 11:38:32PM 0 points [-]

I don't think we're using the same definition of 'win'. This is the same thinking that leads to two-boxing.

Comment author: scav 26 November 2013 02:52:26PM 2 points [-]

Heh. I also didn't care about the $60, and realised that taking the time to work out an optimal strategy would cost more of my time than the expected value of doing so.

So I fell back on a character-ethics heuristic and cooperated. Bounded rationality at work. Whoever wins can thank me later for my sloth.

Comment author: RussellThor 01 December 2013 08:34:39AM 1 point [-]

Same thats pretty much why I choose cooperate.

Comment author: Kurros 26 November 2013 12:08:34AM *  2 points [-]

Lol, I cooperated because $60 was not a large enough sum of money for me to really care about trying to win it, and in the calibration I assumed most people would feel similarly. Reading your reasoning here, however, it is possible I should have accounted more strongly for people who like to win just for the sake of winning, a group that may be larger here than in the general population :p.

Edit: actually that's not really what I mean. I mean people who want to make a rational choice to maximum the probability of winning for its own sake, even if they don't actually care about the prize. I prefer someone gets $60 and is pleasantly surprised to have won, than I get $1. I predict that overall happiness is increased more this way, at negligible cost to myself. Even if the person who wins defected.

Comment author: Ander 26 November 2013 01:09:11AM 1 point [-]

Agreed, I think that the rational action in this scenario depends on one's goal, and there are different things you could choose as your goal here.
I also think I shouldve set a higher value for my 90% confidence of the number of people who would cooperate, because its quite possible that a lot more peopel than I expected would choose alternate goals for this other than 'winning'.

Comment author: LeBleu 25 November 2013 09:19:02PM 25 points [-]

I took the survey.

Comment author: therufs 25 November 2013 09:07:58PM 22 points [-]

I have taken the survey. Whoot!

Comment author: asr 25 November 2013 08:46:42PM 23 points [-]

Taken and look forward to seeing the results. Thanks for putting this together.

Comment author: lmm 25 November 2013 08:16:47PM 23 points [-]

Took the survey, including all questions. Hope it is not discarded for contradictory elements.

Comment author: jpet 25 November 2013 08:03:52PM 23 points [-]

Took it. Comments:

  • Hopefully you have a way to filter out accidental duplicates (i.e. a hidden random ID field or some such), because I submitted the form by accident several times while filling it out. (I was doing it from my phone, and basically any slightly missed touch on the UI resulted in accidental submission).

  • Multiple choice questions should always have a "none" option of some kind, because once you select a radio button option there's no way to deselect it. Most of them did but not all.

  • I answered "God" with a significant probability because the way the definitions is phrased, I would say it includes whoever is running the simulation if the simulation hypothesis is true. I'm sure many people interpreted it differently. I'd suggest making this distinction explicit one way or the other next time.

Comment author: Kurros 26 November 2013 12:02:32AM 2 points [-]

It defined "God" as supernatural didn't it? In what sense is someone running a simulation supernatural? Unless you think for some reason that the real external world is not constrained by natural laws?

Comment author: jazmt 26 November 2013 04:07:09PM 1 point [-]

For a discussion of the meaning of supernatural see here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1525/eth.1977.5.1.02a00040/pdf

Comment author: scav 26 November 2013 02:46:05PM 0 points [-]

If everything in your universe is a simulation, then the external implementation of it is at least extra-natural from your point of view, not constrained by any of the simulated natural laws. So you might as well call it supernatural if you like.

If you include all layers of simulation all the way out to base reality as part of the one huge natural system, then everything is natural, even if most of it is unknowable.

Comment author: Kurros 27 November 2013 08:49:36AM 2 points [-]

I'm no theologian, but it seems to me that this view of the supernatural does not conform to the usual picture of God philosophers put forward, in terms of being the "prime mover" and so on. They are usually trying to solve the "first cause" problem, among other things, which doesn't really mesh with God as the super-scientist, since one is still left wondering about where the world external to the simulation comes from.

I agree that my definition of the supernatural is not very useful in practice, but I think it is necessary if one is talking about God at all :p. What other word should we use? I quite like your suggested "extra-natural" for things not of this world, which leaves supernatural for things that indeed transcend the constraints of logic.

Comment author: scav 27 November 2013 12:38:59PM 1 point [-]

Well, I can't find any use for the word supernatural myself, even in connection with God. It doesn't seem to mean anything. I can imagine discussing God as a hypothetical natural phenomenon that a universe containing sentient life might have, for example, without the s word making any useful contribution.

Maybe anything in mathematics that doesn't correspond to something in physics is supernatural? Octonions perhaps, or the Monster Group. (AFAIK, not being a physicist or mathematician)

Comment author: Kurros 27 November 2013 10:43:52PM 1 point [-]

Hmm, I couldn't agree with that later definition. Physics is just the "map" after all, and we are always improving it. Mathematics (or some future "completed" mathematics) seems to me the space of things that are possible. I am not certain, but this might be along the lines of what Wittgenstein means when he says things like

"In logic nothing is accidental: if a thing can occur in an atomic fact the possibility of that atomic fact must already be prejudged in the thing.

If things can occur in atomic facts, this possibility must already lie in them.

(A logical entity cannot be merely possible. Logic treats of every possibility, and all possibilities are its facts.)" (from the Tractatus - possibly he undoes all this in his later work, which I have yet to read...)

This is a tricky nest of definitions to unravel of course. I prefer to not call anything supernatural unless it lies outside the "true" order of reality, not just if it isn't on our map yet. I am a physicist though, and it is hard for me to see the logical possibility of anything outside the "true" order of the universe. Nevertheless, it seems to me like this is what people intend when they talk about God. But then they also try to prove that He must exist from logical arguments. These goals seem contradictory to me, but I guess that's why I'm an athiest :p.

I don't know where less "transcendant" supernatural entities fit into this scheme of course. Magic powers and vampires etc need not neccessarily defy logical description, they just don't seem to exist.

I agree that in the end, banishing the word supernatural is probably the easiest way to go :p.

Comment author: hyporational 27 November 2013 12:25:00PM 0 points [-]

I'd like to keep the word supernatural in my (inner?) vocabulary, but "unconstrained by physics" makes absolutely no sense to me, so I tried to choose a definition that doesn't make my brain hurt. If we inspect the roots of the word, you can see it roughly means "above nature", nature here being the observable universe whether it's a simulation or not. I find this definition suits the situation pretty well.

Comment author: Kurros 27 November 2013 10:49:11PM 1 point [-]

I can't disagree with that :p. I will concede that the survey question needs some refinement.

Comment author: hyporational 26 November 2013 01:33:39PM 0 points [-]

We had some discussion of this here.

Comment author: Lion 26 November 2013 12:21:29AM *  4 points [-]

Maybe my definition of "supernatural" isn't the correct definition, but I often think of the word as describing certain things which we do not (currently) understand. And if we do eventually come to understand them, then we will need to augment our understanding of the natural laws...Assuming this "supernatural" stuff actually exists.

I suppose a programer could defy the laws he made for his virtual world when he intervenes from outside the system....But earthly programers obey the natural physical laws when they mess with the hardware, which also runs based on these same laws. I understand this is what you mean by "constrained by natural laws".

Comment author: NNOTM 26 November 2013 02:49:18PM 0 points [-]

There are no "correct" or "incorrect" definitions, though, are there? Definitions are subjective, it's only important that participants of a discussion can agree on one.

Comment author: Lumifer 26 November 2013 03:42:19PM *  2 points [-]

There are no "correct" or "incorrect" definitions, though, are there?

Well... Definitions that map badly onto the underlying reality are inconvenient at best and actively misleading at worst.

Besides, definitions do not exist in a vacuum. They can be evaluated by their fitness to a purpose which means that if you specify a context you can speak of correct and incorrect definitions.

Comment author: NNOTM 26 November 2013 11:13:11PM 0 points [-]

That's true, though I think "optimal" would be a better word for that than "correct".

Comment author: hyporational 26 November 2013 02:53:06PM 1 point [-]

Even agreement isn't necessary, but successful communication would be nice.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 26 November 2013 03:36:20PM 0 points [-]

When A says X to B, it helps if A and B agree on what X refers to at that time, even if X refers to something different when B says X.

Comment author: hyporational 26 November 2013 04:27:34PM *  0 points [-]

True. There's also the option "B implicitly understands what A means by X although it usually means something else to B" which is different from "A and B explicitly agree on what X refers to at that time".

Consider also the possibility that A says X to B correctly predicting that it means something else to B. This would also be sufficient for successful communication, no explicit agreement needed.

Perhaps you meant these to be contained in your statement, and NNOTM did too. In that case we both failed to understand eachother without explicit agreement :)

Comment author: TheOtherDave 26 November 2013 04:46:24PM *  0 points [-]

Yes, I agree that (case 1) A and B explicitly agreeing on what X means is different from (case 2) B implicitly understanding what X means to A, or (case 3) A implicitly understanding what X will mean to B.

And, yes, I meant "A and B agree on what X refers to [when A says X to B]" to include all three cases, as well as several others.

And yes, if you understood me to be referring only to case 1, then we failed to understand each other.

Comment author: hyporational 26 November 2013 05:08:01PM 1 point [-]

Could be a language issue. The Finnish word for agreement pretty much always refers to explicit agreement, whereas there is no simple word for implicit agreement in Finnish language that isn't directly translatable to "mutual understanding" or something like that.

Comment author: komponisto 26 November 2013 05:40:04PM 3 points [-]

In English, "agree" often means something like "coincide". (And Romance languages sometimes say "coincide" for "agree", as in opinions coinciding.)

Comment author: AndekN 25 November 2013 07:24:35PM 25 points [-]

I took the survey.

This is, incidentally, my first comment on LessWrong. I've lurked for years, and pretty much thought I'll probably stay as a lurker for good. For some reason taking the survey made me want to break my silence.So that's a bonus, I guess.

Comment author: brione 25 November 2013 06:33:28PM 23 points [-]

I took the survey, my first, and answered all the questions and extra credit. I did not defect on the monetary reward.

I predict my survey will show me as highly confused. :-)

Comment author: aspera 25 November 2013 06:02:23PM 12 points [-]

Nice job on the survey. I loved the cooperate/defect problem, with calibration questions.

I defected, since a quick expected value calculation makes it the overwhelmingly obvious choice (assuming no communcation between players, which I am explicitly violating right now). Judging from comments, it looks like my calibration lower bound is going to be way off.

Comment author: bbleeker 25 November 2013 05:35:33PM 24 points [-]

Took the survey.

Comment author: pre 25 November 2013 04:46:13PM 22 points [-]

I took the survey.

The answer to how many minutes I spend here is a bit lower than you might expect, in that my robots scan the RSS feeds and send me interesting stuff so basically it's almost zero, unless you count my robots time somehow.

Comment author: Dan_Moore 25 November 2013 03:33:15PM *  24 points [-]

I completed the survey & had to look up the normative ethics choices (again). Also cisgender. I cooperated with the prisoner's dilemma puzzle & estimated that a majority of respondents would also do so, given the modest prize amount.

Also, based on my estimate of a year in Newton's life in last year's survey, I widened my confidence intervals.

Comment author: evgenit 25 November 2013 11:50:34AM 20 points [-]

Done, all questions answered. Yvain, well done on clear questions and good design.

Comment author: Jennifer_H 25 November 2013 07:01:37AM 22 points [-]

One survey (and bonus questions!) completed.

Comment author: b1shop 25 November 2013 06:39:25AM 4 points [-]

A comment on the prize for those who've already taken it:

Qrsrpg frrzf yvxr pyrneyl gur evtug zbir. Gurer'yy or uhaqerqf bs erfcbaqragf fb V'yy unir n znetvany vzcnpg ba gur fvmr bs gur cevmr. Ubjrire, V dhnqehcyr zl punapr bs jvaavat ol pubbfvat qrsrpg. Gung orvat fnvq, V ubcr lbh cvpxrq pbbcrengr.

Comment author: notsonewuser 01 January 2014 05:07:48PM 0 points [-]

Good thing other people didn't reason that way! I would be much more likely to defect if I was competing with people who had not read Less Wrong.

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 25 November 2013 08:24:58AM -1 points [-]

Gung vf cerpvfryl gur ernfba jul guvf xvaq xvaq bs ernfbavat qbrfa'g jbex. Unira'g lbh ernq hc ba gur cevfbaref qvyrzn? Be qb lbh vzcyl gung YJref jvyy zber yvxryl pbbcrengr guna abg. Gung znl or pbeerpg - ohg bayl vs lbh pubbfr cebonovyvfgvpnyyl. Gur engvbany nccebnpu urer vf gb ebyy n qvr naq qrsrpg jvgu $c= 25%-rcfvyba$ (rcfvyba orvat n ohssre sbe gubfr abg fzneg rabhtu). Gung jvyy znkvzvmr birenyy cre crefba.

Comment author: b1shop 08 December 2013 05:41:36PM 0 points [-]

Thanks for picking cooperate.

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 08 December 2013 08:50:09PM 1 point [-]

Huh? Nothing to thank. I did roll the die and would have defected on a 1. That would have been the most sensible move for all involved.

Or did you thank me for applying the procedure? In that case: Appreciated.

Comment author: Username 25 November 2013 06:14:23AM 23 points [-]

Surveyed! I noticed that someone said that they cooperated on the prisoner's dilemma problem, so I'll balance the odds and tell you all that I defected. Am curious to see if this will reflect in the karma people give this comment.

Also, I wouldn't do this, but you leave the option open of someone poisoning the well and taking the survey a bunch of times to improve their chance of winning the money. Are you screening for duplicate IP addresses?

Comment author: sketerpot 25 November 2013 04:52:44AM *  21 points [-]

Took the survey. Cooperated because most puzzles which explicitly use the words "cooperate" and "defect" have been created in such a way as to make cooperation the better choice.

(Considering my fairly low chances of winning, a deep analysis would have had only recreational value, and there were other fun things to do.)

Comment author: Suryc11 25 November 2013 04:09:46AM *  21 points [-]

Took the survey. Very interesting questions overall, especially the site-wide Prisoner's Dilemma.

I'd like to note that I was very confused by the (vague and similar) CFAR questions regarding the possibility of people changing, but I'm assuming that was intentional and look forward to an explanation.

Comment author: Eitan_Zohar 25 November 2013 03:18:09AM 23 points [-]

I took it, and even did the bonus questions. Yay me!

Comment author: JoshuaZ 25 November 2013 01:43:22AM *  15 points [-]

Regarding the preferred relationship status I'm not sure that combining uncertain with no preference was ideal. I have no strong preferences on that issue and I'm very certain of that.

Also, the religion question was difficult, in that I had to choose between "atheist but spiritual" and "atheist and not spiritual"- I'm an atheist but go to religious services regularly. But it isn't out of anything "spiritual" which is at best a hideously ill-defined term, but rather out of emotional and communal attachment.

The Singularity question is also broad, since there are so many different meanings. I interpreted it as about an intelligence explosion (partially since I consider the others to be much less likely).

Overall, this version was well-done. Thanks for putting in the effort, and thanks for everyone who helped contribute questions.

Comment author: [deleted] 25 November 2013 12:51:44PM *  5 points [-]

"spiritual" which is at best a hideously ill-defined term

I would have interpreted it as “I realize that I am not a monkey brain, but am a timeless abstract optimization process to which this ape is but a horribly disfigured approximation”, but IIRC I was told that was not the actual meaning.

Comment author: kalium 27 November 2013 05:01:23AM -1 points [-]

Who told you the actual meaning, and what was it?

I interpreted as interested in seeking out the sort of mental state associated with a "religious experience", and put down "atheist but spiritual" because of my curiosity about meditation.

Comment author: Leonhart 25 November 2013 10:22:31PM 1 point [-]

Hah, that's amusing. I had that kind of sentiment in mind as well, but I perceived it as wanting a "religious-but-not-spiritual" option. Which we totally ought to have.

Comment author: moridinamael 25 November 2013 01:00:11AM 20 points [-]

Mission complete.

Comment author: ESRogs 24 November 2013 11:12:34PM 20 points [-]

Boomshanked! (aka done)

Excited to see the results.

Comment author: TheMajor 24 November 2013 10:39:12PM 20 points [-]

Took the survey, and continued to finally make an account. Some questions were ambiguous though (as some other people partially pointed out). I had most problems with:

  • Having more children. Over which period of time? As an adolescent I'm not really keen on having children just yet, but I might be in 15 or 20 years.
  • Time on LW: I've recently finished reading almost all posts on LW, which meant I spent several hours a day on LW. But now that I have finished reading all those I am only reading new posts, which takes no more than 5-10 minutes a day on average. So there is a large difference between a best estimate of the amount of time I spent on LW any previous day and the best estimate of the time I will spend tomorrow. Which of these is the average day?
  • Hear about: I had problems interpreting the question. Taking the wording literally the category specified is extremely broad, including even casual comments by colleagues along the lines of: 'Try checking the batteries more frequently.' (which is a technique to improve your productivity, provided batteries are important in your line of work).
  • Akrasia: meditation. I've meditated after sporting frequently in the past, which had nothing to do with akrasia. I decided not to mention the meditation (contrary to Keller, whose comment I only noticed after filling in the survey).
Comment author: V_V 24 November 2013 08:56:09PM 11 points [-]

What about being the ultimate defector and submitting multiple times to increase your chances of winning (and screwing up the survey results as a side effect)?

Comment author: Benquo 25 November 2013 10:02:07PM 3 points [-]

Hmm, or you could just do four times as many "cooperate" dummy entries, similarly increase your chance of winning, and increase the size of the prize as well. Are "No I will screw things up" answers counted towards the PD?

Comment author: V_V 25 November 2013 10:09:24PM 3 points [-]

But that would still be a defection on a meta-level towards the people who played a single time.

If you account for the possibility of playing multiple times, this game is an example of the Tragedy of the commons

Comment author: MugaSofer 24 November 2013 07:52:31PM 22 points [-]

Surveyed, including bonus. Only just remembered to comment.

I see the logic, but did think that the Prisoner's Dilemma question was overly complicated - possibly leading to some participants not making the connection to their beliefs about How To Behave In Prisoner's Dilemmas (well, I see now from below that it led to at least one.)

I have no idea if this is a good or bad thing.

Comment author: EGI 24 November 2013 06:20:12PM 20 points [-]

Surveyed, including bonus.

I really liked the monetary reward prisoners dillema. I am really curious how this turns out. Given the demographic here, I would predict ~ 85% cooperate.

The free text options were rendered in german (Sonstige). Was that a bug or does it serve some hidden purpose?

Comment author: aspera 25 November 2013 06:05:49PM 4 points [-]

My confidence bounds were 75% and 98% for defect, so my estimate was diametrically opposed to yours. If the admittedly low sample size of these comments is any indication, we were both way off.

Why do you think most would cooperate? I would expect this demographic to do a consequentialist calculation, and find that an isolated cooperation has almost no effect on expected value, whereas an isolated defection almost quadruples expected value.

Comment author: EGI 26 November 2013 10:11:53PM 3 points [-]

My confidence bounds were 75% and 98% for defect, so my estimate was diametrically opposed to yours. If the admittedly low sample size of these comments is any indication, we were both way off.

I expected most of the LessWrong comunity to cooperate for two reasons: 1. I model them as altruistic as in Kurros comment. 2. I model them as oneboxing in newcombs problem.

One consideration I did not factor into my prediction is, that - judging from the comments - many people refuse to cooperate in transfering money form CFAR/Yvain to a random community member.

Comment author: Kurros 26 November 2013 12:27:48AM 2 points [-]

You don't think people here have a term for their survey-completing comrades in their cost function? Since I probably won't win either way this term dominated my own cost function, so I cooperated. An isolated defection can help only me, whereas an isolated cooperation helps everyone else and so gets a large numerical boost for that reason.

Comment author: aspera 26 November 2013 04:08:28AM 1 point [-]

It's true: if you're optimizing for altruism, cooperation is clearly better.

I guess it's not really a "dilemma" as such, since the optimal solution doesn't depend at all on what anyone else does. If you're trying to maximize EV, defect. If you're trying to maximize other people's EV, cooperate.

Comment author: [deleted] 24 November 2013 06:34:39PM 1 point [-]

The free text options were rendered in german (Sonstige). Was that a bug or does it serve some hidden purpose?

I think it's Google Docs's fault -- they were in Italian for me.

Comment author: NoSuchPlace 24 November 2013 05:35:09PM 21 points [-]

Completed survey.

Comment author: [deleted] 24 November 2013 05:22:12PM *  14 points [-]

I wanted an ADBOC answer to the HBD question. Lacking that, I answered the question about the belief (regardless of whether I endorse policies that people with the same belief typically endorse -- like I did for the AGW question), but given that (unlike the AGW question) it was in the politics section and that it mentioned a movement, I felt a bit uncomfortable doing that. Also, I interpreted "we" in the Great Stagnation question as "American", given that that's what the cited Wikipedia article says.

In the income question I only counted my PhD scholarship after taxes, and not the "reimbursement" of travel expenses (which often exceed the amount I actually spend while travelling) nor the private tutoring I've very occasionally done (I kind-of consider the money a gift in exchange of a favour).

I rounded my top-level contributions to Main and Discussion down to zero.

Comment author: [deleted] 29 November 2013 07:56:09PM *  1 point [-]

Other comments to my answers:

In the Living With question, what's the point of the “most of the time”? These days I probably spend more time at my girlfriends' than at my own place (though neither makes up the absolute majority of hours in an average week), but I wouldn't consider myself to be living in the former because I don't have the keys to that place, don't pay the rent there, don't do homework there (other than setting and clearing the table when I eat there), and don't spend any nontrivial amount of time without my girlfriend there. So I answered “With roommates” (where I do do all of those things), but given the “most of the time” I'm not sure that was what I was supposed to answer.

“Are you planning on having more children? Answer yes if you don't have children but want some” -- we want some children some day, but we're not planning on having children now. (I'm not even sure how I answered anymore.)

There's no such thing as a minimum wage law in my country. Rather than spending time trying to figure out what the answers should be supposed to mean in this situation, I just skipped the question.

“How would you describe your opinion of social justice, as you understand the term? See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice” -- as I understand the term before or after reading the lede of that WP article? On reading it, I realized there's a mostly kind-of sort-of sane mainstream social justice movement that social justice warriors on Tumblr and the like aren't representative of any more than the likes of Dworkin and Daly are of kind-of sort-of sane mainstream feminism, so I answered 4/5 -- but would have probably answered somewhere around 2/5 hadn't I seen that WP article.

Comment author: Vaniver 26 November 2013 10:33:36PM 3 points [-]

nor the private tutoring I've very occasionally done (I kind-of consider the money a gift in exchange of a favour).

In the US, at least, this would be taxable income. (I find this amusing in the context of the sibling comment about tax evasion being a problem.)

Comment author: [deleted] 25 November 2013 09:40:39AM 1 point [-]

Also, in the taxes question, I think that the tax revenue is too low in my country, but the tax rates are about right or even slight too high -- it's tax evasion which is way too big (and I'm not sure how I'd go about reducing that). I averaged my answer answer if the question had been about tax revenues and my answer if it had been about tax rates, weighed by my probability assignments for each meaning, and picked the middle answer.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 26 November 2013 04:55:44AM 0 points [-]

From what I hear, your country is in a vicious cycle where high tax rates encourage tax evasion so the government raises taxes (and creates new taxes) to compensate which further encourages tax evasion.

Comment author: [deleted] 26 November 2013 08:53:59AM *  2 points [-]

Yes, that's essentially correct (now that we have technocratic governments; before that, no politician dared raise taxes or reduce public spending (because either would be unpopular) sending the public debt up towards infinity).

Comment author: [deleted] 24 November 2013 05:09:22PM *  5 points [-]

I accidentally submitted the survey before finishing it, so I'm taking it again. So, when you see two very similar responses except the second contains a few more answers than the first, please ignore the first.

Comment author: Oscar_Cunningham 25 November 2013 10:07:54PM 3 points [-]

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Comment author: FourFire 24 November 2013 12:10:56PM 17 points [-]

Well I took this year's survey, answering as many questions which I felt comfortable answering (nice one on the last question).