ChristianKl comments on Human Evil and Muddled Thinking - Less Wrong

40 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 13 September 2007 11:43PM

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Comment author: DanielLC 27 August 2011 05:53:33AM 5 points [-]

Stalin and Hitler did not suffer from lack of clarity. They knew exactly what they were doing, knew why they were doing it, and were glad of the outcome.

I disagree. They managed to convince themselves that the people they were killing weren't really people.

Helping people to open their eyes and see human suffering, raising children to be compassionate, will do far more to get rid of the Hitlers and Castros than logic and writing classes.

Helping people open their eyes means making them stop lying to themselves. People lying to themselves is one of the largest causes of bias. That is a very good example of why overcoming bias is important.

Comment author: ChristianKl 09 February 2015 10:35:52AM 0 points [-]

They managed to convince themselves that the people they were killing weren't really people.

How do you know that to be true? Especially as I'm not sure which German word you are referring to when you speak of 'people' if you are referring to any at all.

Comment author: Jiro 09 February 2015 06:22:34PM 1 point [-]

I generally don't like "taboo this word" but you could make a good case for tabooing "people" here.

If by "people", DanielC meant "entities which have rights and whose rights deserve to be respected", then of course Hitler thought he wasn't killing people, but that is just vacuously true.

Comment author: ChristianKl 09 February 2015 10:11:59PM 0 points [-]

That assumes that Hitler believed in the principle of respecting rights in the first place. I don't think that's true.

Comment author: DanielLC 09 February 2015 08:02:46PM 1 point [-]

You have an attractor for "rube" and "blegg". If something is "really a blegg", that means that, once you know everything about it, you'd sort it as a blegg. You might currently sort it as "unknown", but since you would sort it as a blegg, it's really a blegg.

You also have an attractor for "person". You feel empathy for people. You care if they die. If you know everything about a human, they are sorted into "person". It's not really rational. They obviously have a name, and every name sorts them into "person", but somehow they only get sorted into there if you know what it is. Nonetheless, since everyone would get sorted into "person" if you knew enough about them, they're all people.

If Hitler personally knew the people he was killing, he wouldn't be okay with killing them.

Comment author: ChristianKl 09 February 2015 11:41:41PM 0 points [-]

If Hitler personally knew the people he was killing, he wouldn't be okay with killing them.

I think that's wrong for Hitler. It's my impression that Hitler was willing to kill anyone he considered a traitor whether or not he knew the person personally. He didn't killed as much people he knew personally as Stalin but I think he was capable of that feat.

Comment author: Vaniver 09 February 2015 11:54:32PM 2 points [-]

If Hitler personally knew the people he was killing, he wouldn't be okay with killing them.

??? Knowing people doesn't mean you like them.