fubarobfusco comments on Open thread for December 17-23, 2013 - Less Wrong

5 Post author: ciphergoth 17 December 2013 08:45PM

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Comment author: [deleted] 24 December 2013 07:25:07PM *  6 points [-]

The Chesterton's Fence argument is about knowing the purpose of something and being able to understand the consequences of changing it. With older traditions both are harder.

This is turning the argument on its head.

The point isn't that knowing a purpose for something is a reason to keep the thing. If we know the reason for it and judge it good, of course we shall keep it. Banal. If we know a reason for a thing, and judge it bad, then the argument isn't an encouragement to keep it either. No Chesterton's Fence is the argument that us not knowing the reason behind something is a reason to keep it. Applying it to things, for which we easily learn why they are there, is pretty much redundant as far as heuristics go.

Let me quite directly, from his novel The Thing (1929). In the chapter entitled, “The Drift from Domesticity” he writes:

In the matter of reforming things, as distinct from deforming them, there is one plain and simple principle; a principle which will probably be called a paradox. There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it."

Comment author: fubarobfusco 24 December 2013 09:05:53PM 1 point [-]

Chesterton's Fence is the argument that us not knowing the reason behind something is a reason to keep it.

Here's a Bayesian counterargument for cultural practices:

Culture is more likely to have retained the instruction "Do X!" but not retained knowledge of X's original purpose, if that purpose is not relevant any more.

If X's purpose is still relevant, then retaining and teaching about X's original purpose provides greater incentive for learning and teaching X, making X more likely to be retained. But if X's original purpose is not still relevant, then retaining knowledge of the original purpose is a disincentive to learn and teach X itself, making X less likely to be retained. So, given that X is still taught, learning that its original purpose is known is evidence that it is still relevant; whereas learning that it is not known is evidence that it is not still relevant.

Comment author: [deleted] 25 December 2013 08:42:42AM *  4 points [-]

If X's purpose is still relevant, then retaining and teaching about X's original purpose provides greater incentive for learning and teaching X, making X more likely to be retained. But if X's original purpose is not still relevant, then retaining knowledge of the original purpose is a disincentive to learn and teach X itself, making X less likely to be retained. So, given that X is still taught, learning that its original purpose is known is evidence that it is still relevant; whereas learning that it is not known is evidence that it is not still relevant.

If you are using the model of memetic selection, then useful things Xs are unlikely to have true explanations of why they are useful attached to them, but the most virulent ones. Sometimes they are the same, but obviously often they aren't. After all Robin Hanson gets a lot of low hanging fruit showing us how for example school isn't about learning etc.

Sometimes the most persistent combination would be a behavior or practice without an explicit explanation at all.